ain't that a kick in the teeth, SR video game confirmed for xbox 360 Options

[mfb]

SR for xbox 360

[fistandantilus4....]

damn, and I'd resisted x-box all this time.

So what has Benson done before?

[Critias]

You mean before pooping in our mouths, just now? Couldn't tell ya.

[Edward]

SR as a first person shooter.

It sucks but I am not shore you could come up with anything much better. Trust nobody/you need these men to survive duality really doesn’t strike me as something a computer can run well.

Edward

[SL James]

Hmm... Deus Ex with trolls...

[ShadowDragon8685]

The Sega game was a good SR game.

I'm quite sure they could've come up with something better than an FPS...

Like say, an RPG along the lines of Arcanum, if not an MMO?

[Grinder]

Hopefully it'll include a good multiplayer-option so you can play a runner team.

[northern lights]

i'm with you grinder.

[Edward]

Never played Arcanum.

You could wind up with some interesting multiplayer action along the lines of counterstrike. Did they ever get intelligent bot responses in that?

The part of SR that really gives it its flavor is legwork. And I don’t think you can get a computer to do that well. Without the legwork its just a sneak and shoot fest.

It could work as a FPS the problem is making it real time. How long will it take to select a spell to cast or to change the firing mode on your SL2 equipped weapon (FPSs normally have 2 firing modes, the Aries Alfa has 4, many have 3). There has never been a real time RPG where I could select things like spells as fast as I felt I should be able to. (Diablo believe it or not came closesed being able to select several options quickly)

Edward

[Sicarius]

Its a roleplaying game.. Clearly the easiest way to convert it to a computer game would be by making it a rol... FIRST PERSON SHOOTER.

[Demonseed Elite]

All depends on how they do it. If it's like Deus Ex, I'm sold. Keep in mind he's an animator. They often do not know the design details of the game they are working on. Their job is to just animate, and that doesn't depend on what the gameplay details are.

Theron Benson doesn't have a lot of history. From what I can gather, I think he graduated from Vancouver Film School and went to work for Microsoft on the now-cancelled MMO, Mythica. Since that game got cancelled, there isn't much I can use as a guideline of his work, but he has some very simple animation samples here and here. After Mythica was cancelled and people were laid off, re-assigned, etc. he got shifted to the FASA Interactive cinematics team, which I imagine was where he was set to work on Shadowrun.

[Critias]

In all fairness, V:tM Bloodlines was a pretty decent game, and it's core engine was FPS.

I'm still not thrilled to see that's that SR is trying, though. I'd have much rather seen just about any other type of game than FPS for it. I guess FPS's are pretty "streamlined" though.

[Demonseed Elite]

"FPS" can also be a pretty broad term when coming out of the mouth of an animator. Like you mentioned, Bloodlines and also Deus Ex would both probably be considered FPS games to an animator, as far as their job is concerned.

But really, it's way too early for us to tell at this point. I wanna see a comment from a designer.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Firing modes. It depends on how cleverly they can work the controls. One option would be to use the mousewheel (everyone has a mouse with a wheel on it these days,) to select fire modes.

You could do the same for spells, but that would be a hell of a lot.

I think the best way, honestly, to do that would be to allow the player to pause the game and set his options. If he's manually selecting to change something, the changes execute in the order he agrees upon. IE: If he changes his Ingram Smartgun to firing in FA, and then wants to eject the clip and reload (both controls should be available for use during full-action play, but for the sake of the slowpokes amongst us, have everything manipulatable from a pause window,) then he would first use a simple action of about 1.5 seconds to flip the switch, another to eject the spent clip, and one to reload. If, on the other hand, he has a smartgun, the gun's fire mode changes instantly, and the clip falls out instantly as well, the only 1.5 seconds spent not involved in a phrenetic orgy of lead being the time it takes him to reload the clip.

And please, please PLEASE have the damn thing just COUNT the bullets remaining, and remember that there's a bullet in the chamber! If you reload with one in the pipe, you should have clip +1 ready, not clip!!! x.x >.<!!!!

Also, while reloading, if you're using a one handed gun, you should be able to fire that one in the pipe. That's always cheesed me off, the way you're stuck reloading. Especially if it's some funky rifle with ass-slow long reload animation.

What I wanna know is, how do they plan on handling PhysAds and Melee Sammies? To my knowledge, there's never been a truely successful first-person melee game. Sure, every damn FPS has a melee weapon, but it's never quite as good an experiance as a third person fighter.

Also, Deckers! Don't shaft the Decker, we're heart and soul of Shadowrun!

[Backgammon]

"from a couple decades ago"

Clearly this game is in good hands. The people in charge of it have made sure people working on it know what the game is in order to capture the feel of it. Yes.

[Demonseed Elite]

Yeah, clearly that comment indicates that he won't be able to animate properly. Because, y'know, limb movement has changed drastically in Shadowrun over the years!

[ShadowDragon8685]

Demonseed, please bear in mind the wide and diverse nature of cyberlimbs, obvious and otherwise. Such limbs that may be made to emulate human limbs, or incorporate Ingram Valiant LMGs. Who knows, some enterprising cyberdoc might come up with the equavilent of Omnitech cyberlimbs, so one day you can go from that fasionable "I use only Ares brand chrome polish, and my fingers never worked better" look to the "I'm an Elemental's younger, meaner brother" look. :)

[ShadowDragon8685]

But yeah, I get you, Backie. I think the best way to make a videogame based off a PnP game is to sit EVERYONE involved down around a giant table, haul out copies of the core books, and run them through a good two month campaign. Let them experiance the scares and the thrills, the sick, cold, triumphant feeling when the DM tells you that your first Lone Star goes down under your perfectly placed and completely unstaged down shot from your Predator.

Then the cold, frightening sensation that you get when his ten buddies round the corner. :)

[Sicarius]

You're presuming that they are gonna let you design your character? I hope!!!! (Fingers crossed) that you are right, but do you have a reason to expect this?
When I think FPS I think a generic Duke Nuke'em character, with no customization available.

The point was made that there are alot of games technically FPS from the animation point of view.

Are my fears needless?

[Backgammon]

[Demonseed Elite]

[Jrayjoker]

Ugh, how ummmm...unfortunate....that the developers......decade ago.......FPS.....................

The dots represent me editing all my evil words so I don't get arrested for terroristic threats.

[Demonseed Elite]

Also, don't forget the legal tangle that is Shadowrun's IP rights. Chances are, it's no coincidence that a Shadowrun XBox 360 game would be reminiscent of the old days of Shadowrun. That's the part that Microsoft owns the video game rights for. If they wanted to use anything recent, they'd have to negotiate with Wizkids/Topps, which is probably something they'd rather avoid.

[Kagetenshi]

[nezumi]

crazy question... Any chance of a PC version? I'm debating if I'd buy an SR game just because it's SR (to indicate 'yes, we are still alive!') but I'm not going to buy an XBox just to buy an SR game.

[Demonseed Elite]

Well, it's Microsoft. Meaning that if there is a PC version, I'd be surprised if we see it coming out simultaneously with the Xbox 360 version. Microsoft is big on exclusive XBox releases.

[Edward]

Sicarius makes a good point about character customizability. Traditionally FPS games have very poor selection of character traits, the best I ever saw was battlefield 1942 and then you could only choose from between 3 or 4 equipment loads.

Anotother point about magic (if a PC can get it) is that targeting is very different than firearms. The firearms skill in a FPS is adequately molded buy the player placing the dot on the target. This isn’t much of a way to do magic tests as far as I can figure. Drain will also be a pain in the ass.

The pause to set variables works for single player (it was used in Baldur’s gate) but in multiplayer it sucks as everybody will be pausing all the time. But without this it will be a tall order to set all the required values. It gets worst with a game pad instead of a keyboard no mouse weal for you)

Combat and spell pool can be set in advance as to how aggressive your going to be. Spell damage levels would have to be constant and spell defense thrown out the window.

I’m just glad that I will be able to ignore the computer game. There not my thing any more. Even if it was on PC (I own no consoles) and it was a reasonably good game I probably would not get it.

Edward

[Kagetenshi]

[Nikoli]

Well, maybe when you hot key variable attacks like spells, you can set in the variables.

Chances are stun will be the regenerating "mana" of this system, where you can cast until you run out, then wait for it to refill, sustaning a spell temporarily lowers your overall quantity until the spell is dropped and then it refills back to the normal position.

They'll want to streamline as much as possible and keep game play smooth.

[Velocity]

[Jrayjoker]

Great, now somone is gonna stomp in here and bitch about politics at you. Don't say I didn't warn you.

[sanctusmortis]

Don't forget he said the magic words: he's working WITH THE FASA TEAM on the new SR game at MGS.

Yes, MS bought the people who made the Mechwarrior games. And they're good games. The MechAssault games are some of the best Live enabled games there are. It's a sort of "Mechwarrior 3 for simpletons".

As for firing modes, well, I imagine it'll work the same as Conker on the Xbox: hold down the mode selector button, it brings up a menu of them, pick one and let go, et voila! Spells could work in a similar vein, and so there are the worst problems.

What I worry about is capturing the feel of a run. Hopefully, the old FASA boys know what they're doing.

Hell, I'll probably buy it anyway.

[Velocity]

[Kagetenshi]

[Smiley]

I find myself in the same emotional state I was in when the Star Wars prequels were released. I really, really hope it doesn't suck... but I'm pretty sure it will disappoint me. <Sigh.>

[Aku]

remember, this is xbox 360, the next gen offering from 'soft, due out, if i remember, this holiday season. But, as for a PC version, i would be surprised if they didnt, as it IS microsoft, although it might not happen right away.

with that said, i as well, am fearful of "FPS", however, with that said, from an ANIMATORS POV, Marrowind COULD be seen as a First Person (shooter), and that, IMO, can be a good thing.

Oh, and legwork is SO possible in a video game these days, all it would really take is for all characters that are contacts to be flagged as such, and a set of dialouge that is garuntee'd to show up on one of them for every mission, that will "kickstart" you around visiting a bunch of people that slowly or quickly leak out information to them.

[Demonseed Elite]

[JesterX]

Here, look at this:

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/635/635071p1.html

[Kagetenshi]

[Gauvain]

To further the Bloodlines comparison, maybe it would be better without any multiplayer. Then there is a lot more flexibility for abilities. Anyone care to guess what Wires Reflexes would do to a good counterstrike game? Smartgun link? How would these abilities affect the other players? Not like you could have everyone moving at slow motion like you do in single player.

We'll have to see, but I find myself agreeing with the trepidation ala Star Wars 1-3

[SL James]

[Velocity]

[SL James]

Yeah, I understood his point.

My point was exactly that: There is a Deus Ex already. Aspects of it are now part of Shadowrun. It's going to be the standard by which a Shadowrun game is judged because it's been out for around five years and incorporates many SR-ish elements.

[Velocity]

Ah, I understand. You're probably right, but what can you do? Comparisons are inevitable. Hopefully the developers will anticipate those parallels and aim to surpass Deus Ex.

[Mr. Man]

[hobgoblin]

*points people towards the hellgate:london fps/rpg hybrid coming out for the pc*

oh and if you want a fun cyberpunk fps that behaves a good deal like cs, look up public enemy. its quite nice in a way alltho the cyberware have more in common with the old syndicate (cyberarms, cyberlegs, cybertorso, cyberhead and so on) then with cyberpunk or shadowrun.

and did people notice how the quote from the animator makes it sound as if shadowrun was long dead?

[SL James]

[Caine Hazen]

Didn't I go over this a few years ago :grinbig: the paper trail for the Srun video game on XboX has been around forever. If you look at the run of FPS on the XboX you'll see they all have the same feel...and I hate em. There likely will be no character dev, no good puzzels, ...likely a dragged through story arc with a street sam as the main toon. Also look for the Shadowrun Duels characters to make appearinces, cause they were in part originally created to support this venture...

also as I've stated before...MS + XboX = no more computer games...so don't look for one. Sad really. and it's day 1 studios who have been doing dev on this...not Bungie

I'd rant more...but if you wanna know, do a search, I've got plenty of Srun video game rants out there on this site

[Sicarius]

[Mortax]

Personally, I think they should do it like Fallout:Tactics. You can have teams, single operative, and the initative system is similar to SR. You can also incorperate legwork, team coordination, tactics. Plus, the Fallout series rocks. :-)

[Fix-it]

It had better damn well be released on PC (Even a moderate port would suffice.), or Redmond will have more Red than mond.

[Kagetenshi]

We now discover the reason the Barrens began…

~J

[Mortax]

And I always thought it was a nuke plant going up.

[Kagetenshi]

I know nuclear reactions of all varieties went wonky leading up to the Awakening, but this one may not have gone by itself, ken?

~J

[Arethusa]

[Mortax]

But then wouldn't they be green or glowing instead of red?

[Mortax]

[Arethusa]

Um, no, Mortax, I don't think you are quite catching on. As others have astutely pointed out, making sweeping and incisive assumptions about game design based on the fact that it is presented in the fucking first person is unconscionably, I don't know, retarded.

I'm going to go hate something I know nothing about! Goddamn!

[Kagetenshi]

[Dark Scrier]

Haven't posted in a few months, but this startled me somewhat.

FPS.

Wow. I have been so over FPS for years. The only FPS I really played recently was Max Payne, and Vampire, both of which I played in technically TPS mode.

All this talk about it being good if it is like Deus Ex, I found Deus Ex to be a real pain to play, wasn't enjoyable.

I've been watching people play World of Warcraft the last few days, and frankly, I don't want to touch that with a 10 foot pole, mostly because I hate the idea of Warcraft as an RPG, and didn't like Warcraft 3 much.

But you show me a Shadowrun MMO, half as good as that, and I'll blow my whole paycheck on it. Coming from someone who doesn't often buy games anymore, that says a lot.

There's a whole pile of money to be made in MMOs, both for Fanpro, and the game studio. People play an addictive MMO, get interested about the base game, and join our stellar ranks. While yes, it does mean you need server maintainance, look at the numbers of people who blow the monthly fee on WoW.

[Mortax]

Sigh. They need an emicron for sarcasm so people know when I am and when I'm not. I prolly should have put a larger space in there.

Anyway, as far as the computer rpg subject, I'm aware how little similarity there is. But as anyone who has played fallout:tactics can attest, it's engine could be adapted to shadowrun quite easily. The othe fallouts are close, but I think tactics works best.

[Euchrid]

I really think that the best way for this to be done would be in the style of the greatest PC RPG series ever produced by human hands - Fallout. I know that that's not what's going to happen, and the best that we can hope for is Deus Ex with elves - I'm just making conversation here.

Think about it - the bulk of Fallout (and Planescape and Arcanum and all those great isometric RPGs) was running around a town getting assigned random jobs by strangers. A mechanic like that makes *perfect* sense for a shadowrunner - much more so than it does for, say, a wanderer in a postapocalyptic wasteland, or a lumbering killer without a memory. This really seems to me like the only way that a ShadowRun game should be done.

That's my two cents, anyway.

[Critias]

Has no one else seen V:tM Bloodlines?

[ShadowDragon8685]

I played it. It's crap as an FPS. The guns are weak, useless, and especially the shotgun.

[Critias]

Right. Because -- and here's my point -- it's not really a FPS. It's an RPG that just happens to be using a FPS game engine. If you max out your firearms skill (and related attributes), it can play like a half-assed FPS (because the shots will kind of go, y'know, where you aim them)...but the core of the game is getting sent on jobs by other Licks, doing what the Prince says (or not), working for different factions (or not), and even doing pretty okay as a melee combat engine (though I preferred third person to first person, for that).

It was a shitty FPS, because it wasn't meant to be an FPS. It was an RPG.

Like Shadowrun might be.

[ShadowDragon8685]

What pissed me off most about Vampire: Bloodlines, was that the hit detection was fucked, and there was no such thing as a headshot. You could spend all that time lining up your crappy .38, that apparently won't even drop a totally unarmored human in six shots, to nail him in the head... And he still dosen't die.

[toturi]

Just treat it as if there was no called shot. It should play exactly like that, it doesn't matter how good the player's skill at lining up the shot is, all it matters is the PC's skill. So even if there was a called shot mechanic, it doesn't mean that you will hit the target even if you spend an hour lining up that shot, if your PC's skill sucked (or got unlucky) you will not hit the target.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Yeah, but I think that kind of lames it up. Part of it should well be the player's skill.

I don't want to be shooting people's faces and only doing 1L damage.

The way I think it would be best to play, would be to have your PC's skill with firearms aid you in aiming your weapon (You shot a milimeter to the left? Well, you must've been looking wrong, it's a hit.)

But more than that, it's still going to be important for staging up. Even if you can pull off headshots, which should, IMO, automatically act as a called shot and stage up one, if you have NO Firearms skill, then he just stages it right down again.

[Critias]

The way it worked in V:tM was just that your weapon skill affected whether or not the bullet went where you oh-so-carefully aimed it. I might carefully line up the targeter pip with the ghoul's noggin, but then my Dex 1/Firearms 0 character goes "guh!" and I see the round fly high and wide by about half the width of my monitor.

Same for the SR one would work just fine with me -- if you've got the right skill for the weapon you're aiming, the rounds go where they're supposed to. If not, they're not as likely to.

You could even integrate the smartlink and laser sight technology very very easily, I think. As a Call of Duty player, you can sometimes turn off your crosshairs (as a for instance), so that they aren't "cheating" and showing you right where your weapon is aimed. Likewise, with the click of a button you aim (which zooms in the camera a little with some weapons, making it easier to line up long shots -- but which mostly just changes your first-person view so you're literally looking right down the line up iron sights of your WWII weaponry)... when you aim, you know right where that round's gonna go.

Ditto with a Shadowrun game using this sort of engine -- no "magic crosshairs" displayed on the middle of the screen, for reality's sake. If you want to try and shoot something (just like in the real freakin' world) you either gotta practice shooting from the hip a whole damned lot, or you gotta take a second to aim... or you gotta get a smartlink/laser sight.

Mmm. There's an easy way to make characters lust after some chrome, already!

[ambidextrous]

What I'm wondering is whether this game will actually get made. Someone said that the paper trail for a new SR video game was out there but this is the first I've heard and I pay attention. Many bigger games have gotten a lot farther along in development and still gotten canned in the end. This animator was working on one.

The only way this game will get made is if SR4 is a huge success IMO. And since I (and many other people on DS) have doubts as to the success of SR4 making SR a household name again, I have my doubts about the game even being made.

Having said that, it would be great though if they could cross Deus Ex with Rainbow Six and add a little Arx Fatalis for the magic. I always loved casting spells in Arx. (If they insist on going the FPS route.)

If not FPS then Jagged Alliance 2 could easily be made to look Shadowrunny. That whole game is a Shadowrun.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Crit: I always personally figured that the way Smartlink worked was exactly that: Provide crosshairs, or something similar. :)

And yes, I know. I play Call of Duty. I love it. Aiming down the ironsights is the only way to shoot, bay-bay. :)

[mfb]

jesus and all her saints, would i love to see an SR mod for JA2. that game is a work of art.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Jedi Academy 2? I think I have mis-read your acryonym.

[mfb]

jagged alliance 2, sucka. i pity the foo' who has not played it. jibba-jabba.

[Euchrid]

[Critias]

[ShadowDragon8685]

Meh.. I don't like no cussing rules. Soldiers are some of the most swearingist people in the world. :P

But still... I dunno, I don't like CoD multi. I prefer Day of Defeat for my multiplayer WWII action. I dunno why, I just die every ten seconds in CoD multi.

[Critias]

[Dark Scrier]

Jagged Alliance is a damn fine game, which is damn replayable.

Count me in for a vote for a JA-esque SR game, or even a JA mod.

You guys heard about this JA3 stuff? Apparently it's no longer vapour.

[hermit]

JA3 is actually in the works? Cool!

[Dark Scrier]

Was apparently slated for real-time, but they're knocking back the release date to make it turn based.

Here.

[hermit]

Now, if they'd only release an editor for this game, that would be so sweet and would go so damn well with an SR-based strategy mod ...

[Arethusa]

JA2's community is moribund. It's damn old, and quite honestly, the game wasn't that great. It was just better than any other game that had tried the turn based squad level strategy thing on the computer.

JA3D is going to be a 3D update of JA2. Who knows if they'll change more (more realism and less retarded humor'd be nice).

JA3 will be a whole new game, which will hopefully take the good stuff in JA2 and jettison the crap.

[mintcar]

There is now a beta demo of the Shadowrun mode for Neverwinter Nights. Shadowrunner Nights

I haven´t tried it because I dont have the game installed and Im not curious enough to make the effort. But if anyone else is, it would be great to hear a review.

[hermit]

It has flying cars, for fuck's sake. Goodbye.

[BitBasher]

[Jrayjoker]

[Critias]

A few covers of sourcebooks have 'em.

[Edge2054]

I apologize in advance if this has already been brought up, walked into the topic late, but did anyone else catch this.

[Aku]

yes, its been brought up, and yes, it could be seen that way, but given he also preface "paper RPG" with old, i'm not sure the guy really knows any such pen and paper RPG's are still being played.

[Arethusa]

[Jrayjoker]

[Arethusa]

"There is nothing wrong with that." is expressive of your approval of flying cars.

"There are multiple sourcebooks with flying cars in/on them." has just about fuckall to do with whether or not flying cars are actually a good idea. One statement does not procede from the other.

[hermit]

Besides, this looks like a Futurama-Type hovercar, not even one of these jet-engine-powered air cars BitBasher linked to.

Which, by the way, I can't see going very far. Even in the US, where permits for anything are much easier to get than where I live, you do need a pilot's license to fly anything. And besides, who will tolerate cars operating at the sound level of fighter jets now? Would you want your neighbour to ride one?

Air cars as usually presented in 'cyberpunky' settings are bullshit. Small planes, micro-helicopters, ultralights, all that is good and I can live with.

But no aerodynes, hovercars, or back-to-the-future DeLoreans that fold in their wheels and fly.

[Arethusa]

No, you don't. If what you fly doesn't go above 400 ft, you can fly it license free. You just have to obey local ordinances regarding air traffic and noise.

[hermit]

[Nikoli]

Actually, licensing is what is mainly what is holding the Moller Air-car off market. the FAA is having a shit fit over the concept, but if he can prove the safety and the software that does most of the flying can also help alleviate air-traffic concerns, this could very-well become a feasible mode of transportation. Though the military applications will come first, we should see it in the next 10 years or so.

[hermit]

I doupt this thing can be armoured enough to operate economically and take what low-flying things have to be able to survive. It will go the way of the Commanche.

And besides, I still am not too convinved about noise generated by these things. Those are turboprop or jet turbines (couldn't tell from the pics), for crying out loud!

[Arethusa]

They're turboprops with electronic noise cancelling built in (environmental, not just for the pilot). Noisy, of course, but not as noisy as you might expect.

[Jrayjoker]