Shadowrun 4: Magic - Dumpshock Forums

Shadowrun 4: Magic

Bull View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 03:11 AM Post #1
Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50	Feel free to ask questions, I and the others familiar with SR4 will try and answer questions when we can, and try to keep the thread on topic. :)

Replies (1 - 24)

Sabosect View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 03:13 AM Post #2
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741	Okay. Got a list of spells available in this version?

Babel View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 04:47 AM Post #3
Target Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 26-June 03 Member No.: 4,817	How has Increase Reflexes changed with SR4? Is there still multiple versions of it (+1-3)? What metamagic powers are available and what benefits do they provide? How has astral perception and projection changed?

Bull

Aug 22 2005, 04:59 AM

Post #4

Grumpy Old Ork Decker

Group: Admin
Posts: 3,794
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Orwell, Ohio
Member No.: 50

QUOTE (Sabosect)

Okay. Got a list of spells available in this version?

I don;t have a text version handy, and I'm not about to type up a big list of spells, sorry :)

Generally though, it seems to be similar to the spell selection from SR3 core book. The only thing that really jumped out at me is that both Petrify and Turn To Goo are in the core book again :)

Bull

Bull

Aug 22 2005, 05:04 AM

Post #5

Grumpy Old Ork Decker

Group: Admin
Posts: 3,794
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Orwell, Ohio
Member No.: 50

QUOTE (Babel)

How has Increase Reflexes changed with SR4? Is there still multiple versions of it (+1-3)?

What metamagic powers are available and what benefits do they provide?

How has astral perception and projection changed?

Increase Reflexes: The effects are now identical to Wired Reflexes and the Adept version of Wired, so + to both Initative and Passes. There is only one version of the spell now, and it appears you choose which "bonus" you want to cast at. Each increase has a higher Threshold you have to meet, and +3 is teh highest it can go.

Metamagic: Umm, there's a handful of techniques included in the core book, most seem similar to their SR3 counterparts.

Atral Stuff doesn;t appear to have changed any.

Bull

the_dunner View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 05:16 AM Post #6
Shooting Target Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522	I believe this is a complete list of spells, sorted alphabetically: (Critter) Form Acid Stream Analyze Device Analyze Truth Antidote Armor Ball Lightning Blast Chaos Chaotic World Clairaudience Clairvoyance Clout Combat Sense Confusion Control Actions Control Emotions Control Thoughts Cure Disease Death Touch Decrease [Attribute] Detect [Life Form] Detect [Life Form], Extended Detect [Object] Detect Enemies Detect Enemies, Extended Detect Individual Detect Life Detect Life, Extended Detect Magic Detect Magic, Extended Detox Entertainment Fireball Flamethrower Fling Heal Hibernate Hush Ice Sheet Ignite Improved Invisibility Increase [Attribute] Increase Reflexes Influence Invisibility Knockout Levitate Light Lightning Bolt Magic Fingers Mana Barrier Manaball Manabolt Mask Mass Confusion Mind Probe Mindlink Mob Control Mob Mind Mob Mood Oxygenate Petrify Phantasm Physical Barrier Physical Mask Poltergeist Powerball Powerbolt Prophylaxis Punch Resist Pain Shadow Shapechange Shatter Silence Stabilize Stealth Stunball Stunbolt Toxic Wave Trid Entertainment Trid Phantasm Turn to Goo

Bull View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 05:21 AM Post #7
Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50	And you say I have too much time on my hands :) Bull

Sabosect View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 05:22 AM Post #8
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741	Um... wow. Right as I was about to thank for him at least assuring me of what to expect. In any case, thank you both.

Alvorn View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 06:08 AM Post #9
Target Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 22-August 05 Member No.: 7,588	Can you explain magic loss a little further. In particular buying back magic after you have lost it. So I start with a Magic at 4. Add some cyberware, takes it down to 3. Earn me some karma during a session, I want to boost my Magic back up. Do I pay for it as though it was going back to 4 or up to 5 ? Can you just pay for it this way or do you need to do an ordeal ? Can I choose to "initate" even though I only have 3 magic ?

SL James View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 09:09 AM Post #10
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473	I see that Improved Ability survived into Fourth (like I assumed), but I was wondering if it's just for individual skills or if there's a set of Improved Ability powers for the various Skill Groups that would cost 1 or 1.5 or more power points for each extra dice. That'd be really nice. That way I can make a melee master who is actually a master of all melee and not most melee, and then really good at Blades or Unarmed. Also, can I assume there is an Improved Dodge of some sorts, or something that perhaps does what Combat Sense does in Third Edition?

hahnsoo

Aug 22 2005, 10:04 AM

Post #11

Mr. Johnson

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,587
Joined: 25-January 05
From: Berkeley, CA
Member No.: 7,014

QUOTE (SL James @ Aug 22 2005, 04:09 AM)

I see that Improved Ability survived into Fourth (like I assumed), but I was wondering if it's just for individual skills or if there's a set of Improved Ability powers for the various Skill Groups that would cost 1 or 1.5 or more power points for each extra dice.

Improved ability is just for individual skills, but you can purchase Improved Ability and have it apply to a skill that's rolled into a skill group (i.e. Firearms Skill group of 4 and Improved Ability Pistols +2 would give you Agility + 6 dice for Pistols and Agility + 4 dice for everything else).

QUOTE

Also, can I assume there is an Improved Dodge of some sorts, or something that perhaps does what Combat Sense does in Third Edition?

0.5 per die. Combat Sense is totally evil now. Not only does it give you dice in Surprise tests, but it adds directly to your Reaction for the purposes of the Ranged/Melee attack opposed test while defending. It's better than Improved Ability (Dodge), because you can use it in all situations, not just full defense.

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 10:06 AM Post #12
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	sounds to me like a tricked out adept may well be able to take on a compareable sammie any day and win...

hahnsoo

Aug 22 2005, 10:08 AM

Post #13

Mr. Johnson

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,587
Joined: 25-January 05
From: Berkeley, CA
Member No.: 7,014

QUOTE (hobgoblin)

sounds to me like a tricked out adept may well be able to take on a compareable sammie any day and win...

Well, Reaction Enhancers and most initiative boosters do almost the same thing... add directly to Reaction. I think that's the most effective (and expensive) route to go. A sammy with any level of Wired and several Reaction Enhancers could easily hit their Reaction attribute cap. Adepts also can hit this cap pretty easily with their powers.

SL James View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 10:09 AM Post #14
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473	Dude, it sound like Adepts can dodge bullets now. Anyway, that's interesting. I saw someone take the info from another thread and convert a Speaker's Way Adept with 100 karma into a terrible beast of destruction with Negotiations.

Crusher Bob View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 10:16 AM Post #15
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253	What attribute cap? does this mean that adept power and ware can no longer give you supertroll stats? A human with reaction 6 adds wired 1, does his reaction go to 7 or stay at 6?

hobgoblin

Aug 22 2005, 10:17 AM

Post #16

panda!

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242

QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Aug 22 2005, 12:08 PM)

QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Aug 22 2005, 05:06 AM)

sounds to me like a tricked out adept may well be able to take on a compareable sammie any day and win...

Well, Reaction Enhancers and most initiative boosters do almost the same thing... add directly to Reaction. I think that's the most effective (and expensive) route to go. A sammy with any level of Wired and several Reaction Enhancers could easily hit their Reaction attribute cap. Adepts also can hit this cap pretty easily with their powers.

i was more thinking in terms that with improved ability the adept can get more dice in a test then a sammie can ever get. point is that a sammie can get at most attrib+skill+edge while a adept can get attrib+skill+imp. ability+edge.

it may npt be much but wonder if not it will have some effect.

still, maybe one should have this forked into a diffrent thread as these posts may be on the edge of whats the point of this thread...

btw, does edge have a hard cap or can it go for ever?

hahnsoo

Aug 22 2005, 10:29 AM

Post #17

Mr. Johnson

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,587
Joined: 25-January 05
From: Berkeley, CA
Member No.: 7,014

QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Aug 22 2005, 05:16 AM)

What attribute cap? does this mean that adept power and ware can no longer give you supertroll stats? A human with reaction 6 adds wired 1, does his reaction go to 7 or stay at 6?

The augmented Reaction cap is 9 for everyone but Dwarves (which is at 7). Thus, your maximum Reaction will probably be a 9. A human with a Reaction 6 and Wired 1 will have a Reaction of 7.

I don't want to get into the "Adept vs. Sammie" debate (which has been going on through time immemorial), but I'd still say they can be pretty much evenly matched after character creation, especially with the addition of Bioware at character creation. Realize that while an Adept may have greater skill dice, a Sammie can more easily max out their Agility attribute and have some fairly good bioware options to add bonus dice as well.

Edge does have a hard cap of 6 (7 for humans), unless you get the Lucky quality (which bumps it up by one).

Serbitar View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 10:36 AM Post #18
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534	Is Reaction capped at 9 even when you got this extra thing so your unmodified limit is 7 ?

hahnsoo

Aug 22 2005, 10:41 AM

Post #19

Mr. Johnson

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,587
Joined: 25-January 05
From: Berkeley, CA
Member No.: 7,014

QUOTE (Serbitar)

Is Reaction capped at 9 even when you got this extra thing so your unmodified limit is 7 ?

Ah, good point. If you get Exceptional Attribute, you can boost your augmented Reaction rating to 10.

Crusher Bob View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 11:04 AM Post #20
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253	So the max augmented stat is your 'normal' max +3?

SL James View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 11:05 AM Post #21
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473	Oh, swell.

hahnsoo

Aug 22 2005, 11:20 AM

Post #22

Mr. Johnson

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,587
Joined: 25-January 05
From: Berkeley, CA
Member No.: 7,014

QUOTE (Crusher Bob)

So the max augmented stat is your 'normal' max +3?

Racial Max * 1.5, round down.

blakkie

Aug 22 2005, 11:21 AM

Post #23

Dragon

Group: Members
Posts: 4,718
Joined: 14-September 02
Member No.: 3,263

QUOTE (SL James @ Aug 22 2005, 05:05 AM)

Oh, swell.

*points to the sign hanging overhead*

Remember, this is the Questions Without Whining isle. The Nashing of Teeth isle, for all you moaning pleasure, is below. ;)

Back On Topic:

* Are background counts and/or mana warps covered, and roughly speaking how do they screw with magic now

EDIT: ....and does background count screw with all Adepts powers, and is any effect on Technos mentioned

* Does ongoing sustaining of spells cost you -2 dice to all actions?

* Can you cast more than one spell in a Complex Action (simultaneous cast) and what is the penalty for it

* How long does it take for Heal to come into effect, do you have to sustain it over several rounds/seconds/minutes?

Annihilator View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 11:43 AM Post #24
Target Group: Members Posts: 1 Joined: 25-March 05 Member No.: 7,234	In previous editions you had to roll for magic loss if getting a deadly wound or on certain other occasions (first aid without the +2 mage modifier,...). How does this work in SR4 and when do you have to roll for magic loss?

hahnsoo View Member Profile	Aug 22 2005, 11:46 AM Post #25
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014	Background counts are not covered in SR4. Each sustained spell gives you -2 Dice for all of your actions. You can cast multiple spells in a single action, but you must split your Spellcasting + Magic dice among all of the spells that you cast, and the drain value for each of the spells is increased by 1 point for every additional spell. The duration that Permanent spells need to be sustained is equal to twice the Drain Value of the spell (which for Heal is the Damage Level of the target -2). Each point of Essence Loss on the target reduces the dice pool for the Spellcasting test by 1. A special note about area-effect spells: Radius is now equal to the Force of the spell. EDIT: Oh boy. The text on p173 and p195 contradict each other. p173, under the description of area spells, uses Force for the Radius, while p195 says Magic rating.

« Next Oldest · Shadowrun · Next Newest »