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Garrowolf
post Oct 10 2006, 09:36 AM
Post #1


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I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for a martial arts system for 4th ed.

Personally I hated the maneuvers in 3rd ed. I would prefer a series of skills which would cover the general effect as opposed to each maneuver listed.

I was thinking sort of an effects based game so that you would need rules for individual martial arts. (ie no Judo skill but maybe a Grappling skill)

I wanted it to stay quick like the rest of the system but cover more then I punch/kick you for more damage.

Any thoughts?
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lorechaser
post Oct 10 2006, 03:09 PM
Post #2


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It's going to have to be complicated to be useful, though. ;)

I'm horribly frustrated by Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts). I think that is the gimpiest excuse for a specialization I've ever seen. Because, seriously, when would "Martial Arts" not apply? Why not simply say "Unarmed combat is at +2 dice for 2 bp"?

I tried to at least tone it down for my character, by selecting a specific art, and getting a general list of the techniques they use. However, since any decent martial art has provisions for punching, kicking, grappling and disarming, that's still effectively the same thing.

I have a vague system in mind where you purchase Unarmed Combat as normal, and then each point can be used to buy two points of subsytems. Specialization would apply to one specific subsystem, like "grappling" "disarming" "close combat" "parrying" "non-lethal" "submission".

That's still not great, but a bit of an improvement.

In an ideal world, you would have a manuevers system in place.

Honestly, unarmed combat gets the shaft in SR (which is really okay, otherwise you end up like d20 modern, where people forgo guns for fists), and it could use some punching up (ha!).

The fact that it takes a complex action to make an unarmed attack suggests that they should be at least a bit more flexible than ranged, which has SA/BF/FA and the complexities therein....
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- Garrowolf   Martial Arts   Oct 10 2006, 09:36 AM
- - Dread Polack   Personally, as I don't have very detailed know...   Oct 10 2006, 02:18 PM
- - lorechaser   It's going to have to be complicated to be use...   Oct 10 2006, 03:09 PM
- - Mistwalker   Isn't Arsenal supposed to have updated rules f...   Oct 10 2006, 03:19 PM
- - James McMurray   Hopefully they'll clarify that the +2 speciali...   Oct 10 2006, 03:27 PM
- - GWCarver   You don't really need a system. Any practical...   Oct 10 2006, 03:28 PM
- - Ryu   The specialisation of MA does not apply while tryi...   Oct 10 2006, 04:10 PM
- - lorechaser   GWC: Good point. I'd feel better conceptually...   Oct 10 2006, 04:33 PM
- - kzt   QUOTE (Ryu) The specialisation of MA does not appl...   Oct 10 2006, 04:40 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   One still can truly hope that the abomination of m...   Oct 10 2006, 04:57 PM
- - Demerzel   Just because I feel like being pedantic, MA wont w...   Oct 10 2006, 05:25 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   No, Unarmed (Parrying) is a specialization that is...   Oct 10 2006, 05:31 PM
- - GWCarver   People seem to be getting confused between what th...   Oct 10 2006, 07:04 PM
- - MadDogMaddux   gimme a bit and I'll post the basic Martial Ar...   Oct 10 2006, 07:28 PM
- - Demerzel   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) No, Unarmed (Parrying) ...   Oct 10 2006, 07:40 PM
- - James McMurray   In English (i.e. not Rules speak) "Parry...   Oct 10 2006, 07:49 PM
- - Demerzel   But parry and block are specifically defined in Sh...   Oct 10 2006, 07:58 PM
- - James McMurray   Or it points to seperate authors using the same id...   Oct 10 2006, 08:00 PM
- - Demerzel   You'll note that I gave fair warning that I ch...   Oct 10 2006, 08:18 PM
- - Walknuki   Why would you even need a seperate system for Mart...   Oct 10 2006, 08:38 PM
- - MadDogMaddux   OK, below is the list of CBT:RPG Martial Arts and ...   Oct 10 2006, 08:42 PM
- - PBTHHHHT   Booo, hissss, the list doesn't even cover some...   Oct 10 2006, 08:46 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Demerzel)But parry and block are specifical...   Oct 10 2006, 08:50 PM
- - Fortune   QUOTE (PBTHHHHT) C'mon what about Lohan style?...   Oct 10 2006, 08:53 PM
- - GrinderTheTroll   QUOTE (Walknuki) Why would you even need a seperat...   Oct 10 2006, 09:00 PM
- - James McMurray   QUOTE (Demerzel) If you're going to bemoan the...   Oct 10 2006, 09:05 PM
- - Demerzel   QUOTE (James McMurray) I was saying your position ...   Oct 10 2006, 09:15 PM
- - Kyoto Kid   ...and no mention about good old fashioned Boxing....   Oct 10 2006, 09:23 PM
- - James McMurray   QUOTE (Demerzel) QUOTE (James McMurray @ Oct ...   Oct 10 2006, 09:28 PM
- - Demerzel   QUOTE (James McMurray)I think only the most anal o...   Oct 10 2006, 09:54 PM
- - PBTHHHHT   QUOTE (Fortune @ Oct 10 2006, 03:53 PM) QUOTE...   Oct 10 2006, 10:02 PM
- - blakkie   QUOTE (Demerzel @ Oct 10 2006, 03:54 PM) QUOT...   Oct 10 2006, 10:30 PM
- - James McMurray   QUOTE (Demerzel)You are assuming my position is th...   Oct 10 2006, 11:54 PM
- - Demerzel   QUOTE (James McMurray) You told someone not to tak...   Oct 11 2006, 12:23 AM
- - Fortune   QUOTE (Demerzel) I also would recomend noone ever ...   Oct 11 2006, 12:26 AM
- - Demerzel   I was thinking more along the lines of a military ...   Oct 11 2006, 12:51 AM
- - Kyoto Kid   QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)Oh yeah, watch out for the hair gr...   Oct 11 2006, 12:56 AM
- - James McMurray   QUOTE (Demerzel) You took that quote to the extrem...   Oct 11 2006, 02:02 AM
- - twilite   How hard would it be to just change the specializa...   Oct 11 2006, 02:50 AM
- - PBTHHHHT   QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Oct 10 2006, 07:56 PM) QUO...   Oct 11 2006, 03:59 AM
- - Garrowolf   I think that it would be better to have a few skil...   Oct 11 2006, 04:07 AM
- - Demerzel   QUOTE (James McMurray)If someone says "X is i...   Oct 11 2006, 04:15 AM
- - kzt   QUOTE (Garrowolf) Linear Strikes - Strikes design...   Oct 11 2006, 04:22 AM
- - Demerzel   And for the record I advocate any given real world...   Oct 11 2006, 04:23 AM
- - Ryu   The editing of SR4 is good. "Parry" shou...   Oct 11 2006, 06:48 AM
- - Inu   My own martial rules, borrowed from my friend...   Oct 11 2006, 07:05 AM
- - Glyph   QUOTE (Ryu)The editing of SR4 is good. "Parry...   Oct 11 2006, 07:29 AM
- - Ryu   QUOTE (Glyph)It's like having "pointy...   Oct 11 2006, 09:53 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Demerzel) I stand by the fact that while Pa...   Oct 11 2006, 10:07 AM
- - Demerzel   SO Rotbart you would say that PArry is a valid spe...   Oct 11 2006, 01:50 PM
- - James McMurray   QUOTE I stand by the fact that while Parry is list...   Oct 11 2006, 02:00 PM
- - lorechaser   QUOTE (kzt) I think this makes it cost far too muc...   Oct 11 2006, 03:08 PM
- - knasser   Fucking Hell. Any people who can carry on an argum...   Oct 11 2006, 07:06 PM
- - James McMurray   QUOTE (knasser) Fucking Hell. Any people who can c...   Oct 11 2006, 07:20 PM
- - PBTHHHHT   And for another insight, what is a block? Because...   Oct 11 2006, 08:18 PM
- - GrinderTheTroll   QUOTE (PBTHHHHT) And for another insight, what is ...   Oct 11 2006, 08:56 PM
- - PBTHHHHT   That's what I was trying to say.   Oct 11 2006, 10:37 PM
- - GrinderTheTroll   QUOTE (PBTHHHHT) That's what I was trying to s...   Oct 11 2006, 10:45 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Demerzel) SO Rotbart you would say that PAr...   Oct 11 2006, 11:11 PM
- - James McMurray   We see it as the opposite, that it will help in pr...   Oct 12 2006, 12:31 AM
- - mfb   here's how i'd do it in SR4. make maneuver...   Oct 12 2006, 12:50 AM
- - Kyoto Kid   ...sounds fair to me.   Oct 12 2006, 01:06 AM
- - Garrowolf   QUOTE (Inu) 'unarmed combat' is a unique s...   Oct 12 2006, 03:15 AM
- - Garrowolf   I don't like the ideas of manuevers because th...   Oct 12 2006, 03:27 AM
- - kzt   QUOTE (Garrowolf) I also disagree with the argumen...   Oct 12 2006, 03:54 AM
- - Garrowolf   Actually I was thinking that you could replace Una...   Oct 12 2006, 04:11 AM
- - Fortune   As opposed to leaving it as it is, and using vario...   Oct 12 2006, 04:22 AM
- - Garrowolf   QUOTE Seems like a lot of work to go to to ultimat...   Oct 12 2006, 05:02 AM
- - Demerzel   The thing is the one flavor provided is infinite f...   Oct 12 2006, 05:22 AM
- - G.NOME   Going back to that CBT:RPG post, it was really fun...   Oct 12 2006, 09:10 AM
- - lorechaser   QUOTE (Demerzel) The thing is the one flavor provi...   Oct 12 2006, 03:34 PM
- - James McMurray   QUOTE (lorechaser @ Oct 12 2006, 10:34 AM) Be...   Oct 12 2006, 03:50 PM
- - Demerzel   QUOTE (lorechaser)Not an advantage, but a differen...   Oct 12 2006, 04:56 PM
- - lorechaser   I'd argue that firearms already have manuevers...   Oct 12 2006, 06:13 PM
- - Demerzel   Then at best you should be talking aboujt changes ...   Oct 12 2006, 06:41 PM
- - James McMurray   An exact mirror situation between two sets of rule...   Oct 12 2006, 06:49 PM
- - lorechaser   QUOTE (Demerzel) Then at best you should be talkin...   Oct 12 2006, 07:13 PM
- - PBTHHHHT   Hmmm... these maneuver options aren't too bad....   Oct 12 2006, 08:02 PM
- - lorechaser   That's the idea - I don't want them to pro...   Oct 12 2006, 08:12 PM
- - PBTHHHHT   Some name alternatives for your maneuvers... Q...   Oct 12 2006, 08:31 PM
- - lorechaser   QUOTE (long narrow burst) Overwhelming Force (Una...   Oct 12 2006, 08:41 PM
- - Garrowolf   One of the things that I added was melee and unarm...   Oct 13 2006, 05:16 AM
- - lorechaser   Is there also a penalty for doing so, or is it sim...   Oct 13 2006, 05:27 PM
- - Garrowolf   it's a bonus.   Oct 14 2006, 09:15 AM
- - Inu   QUOTE (Garrowolf) I really like this idea. This ma...   Oct 14 2006, 01:00 PM
- - knasser   QUOTE (knasser @ Oct 11 2006, 02:06 PM) If yo...   Oct 14 2006, 01:17 PM
- - Garrowolf   Um.. I could see a specialization in kicking negat...   Oct 15 2006, 09:03 AM
- - knasser   QUOTE (Garrowolf)Besides computer hackers have 7 o...   Oct 15 2006, 09:47 AM
- - Garrowolf   This is the system I decided to use. I know that t...   Oct 16 2006, 05:50 AM
- - PBTHHHHT   Ok, so some correlations would be? I know it...   Oct 16 2006, 02:07 PM
- - Garrowolf   Well Some martial arts would have just one skill t...   Oct 18 2006, 04:17 AM


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