Astral Hazing for a Magician, Seems like a bad idea, right? Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Outline Switch to: Standard Switch to: Linear+

[McAllister]

Two questions about Astral Hazing.

First; it says that it's a rating 4 background count (no mention of mana ebbs or negative counts, so I'm going to assume positive) that's tainted by darker emotions. Is there any way to use this to my advantage? I'm sure "darker emotions" describes most blood magicians' practices. Could I take up blood magic, use it for really twisted stuff, and get 4 added to my magic instead of subtracted? Or maybe just get the bonus if I'm using magic while feeling particularly emotionally tormented? If that were so, I'd be more than willing to pay for it as if it were a positive quality.

Also, how does it interact with metamagics? Can I Cleanse it, or aspect it towards my own tradition with Geomancy?

[Neraph]

Ok, so we have 2 cases of people saying "no because its too powerful" as opposed to "no because of sound rules-based arguments."

For example, just because this is possible doesn't mean the person is immune to magic. Lone Star's magic division would jump on this "magical terrorism" in a heartbeat. Rival mages attempting to capture the person in question, keep them sedated, and use their aura. Drones.

There are in-game responses that don't make this break the game.

No mere cosmetic detailing for you... said reorganization is probably fatal btw.

I highly doubt that, since, first off, if just building a teepee on a field is enough, than a simple tattoo is enough for your body, and two, that if people can have their brain removed from their body and survive, I think the doctors would be able to work rearranging some organs around as well.

[Draco18s]

Ok, so we have 2 cases of people saying "no because its too powerful" as opposed to "no because of sound rules-based arguments."

We've already quoted the only slightly related rules that there are on this subject, and you think that a few (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) worth of tatoos and body piercings are enough to turn a highly detrimental flaw ("I'm a magician who has an effective 0 or 1 magic, but fortunately, I'm otherwise immune to spells") into the outright most over powered positive quality to ever exist ("I am a magician who has an effective magic that rivals great dragons, and I'm still immune to everyone else's magic").

Cost to do this? 10 karma (or 1 third the cost to buy off the flaw).

[Neraph]

Cost to do this? 10 karma (or 1 third the cost to buy off the flaw).

Acutally, it's 29 karma for initiating twice, and another 75 karma, or the cost of raising a 6 Magic to an 8. So for a total of 99 karma, or over three times the cost of buying off the negative quality, you can turn it into a positive quality. Because remember, you have to be able to "cast" Force 8 Ritual spells in order to do the ritual at all, and assuming you're starting at a Magic 6, you'd need to Initiate twice and raise your magic stat to an 8, because until you geomance the domain your Magic rating is at -4.

Not to mention the time and resources in-game.

So, in short, yes, I think that for paying more than three times the cost of just removing a negative quality you can actually do something to make it beneficial.

EDIT: That's assuming you don't have help Initiating, otherwise the cost might drop a whole 7 points or so, down to 92.

[Draco18s]

Because remember, you have to be able to "cast" Force 8 Ritual spells in order to do the ritual at all

Point to where it says you must be capable of casting a force 8 spell. Geomancy says, "treat the geomantic ritual as if she were casting a spell with Force equal to twice the BC." I see no mention of needing to have magic high enough to actually cast the spell. It's treated as a force 8 spell, it isn't a force 8 spell.

EDIT: That's assuming you don't have help Initiating, otherwise the cost might drop a whole 7 points or so, down to 92.

And add 5 for becoming part of a magical group. 97.

[Neraph]

Point to where it says you must be capable of casting a force 8 spell. Geomancy says, "treat the geomantic ritual as if she were casting a spell with Force equal to twice the BC." I see no mention of needing to have magic high enough to actually cast the spell. It's treated as a force 8 spell, it isn't a force 8 spell.

If you treat it as casting a F8 spell, then you'd need a magic of at least 4 to be allowed to effectively overcast the F8 "spell". Otherwise, what does "treat the geomantic ritual as if she were casting a spell with Force equal to twice the BC" mean?

And add 5 for becoming part of a magical group. 97.

For one, that would only make it slightly less difficult, if you lose 7 points of requirement but gain 5, you'd end up 2 less. But I was referring to ordeals. Sorry about not being clear about it.

For example, take a Geasa and a Sacrifice, and initiating your 2 points becomes easier. You could also say that that one point of Sacrifice is directly related to the Geomantic re-arranging of the player's character. Or make them take two Sacrifices in order to represent it.

But basically, it comes down to using Geomancy to aspect Astral Hazing into a bonus takes a lot more work than just buying it off.

It seems like you're starting to argue for argument's sake. First you don't want to be able to geomancy at all, and now you're arguing about the process to actually do it.

[Draco18s]

If you treat it as casting a F8 spell, then you'd need a magic of at least 4 to be allowed to effectively overcast the F8 "spell". Otherwise, what does "treat the geomantic ritual as if she were casting a spell with Force equal to twice the BC" mean?

Other people can help.

Limit on how many people can be involved.

Here's a better idea (before I admit that you're right), and one that's far more karma friendly:

Get someone else to aspect your domain. Any rules against that? Any geomancer can do it....

[Neraph]

Here's a better idea (before I admit that you're right)

It'll only hurt for a second.

Get someone else to aspect your domain. Any rules against that? Any geomancer can do it....

You could, but if you do it yourself, and prove why you can with the rules (as I have), your GM can't just do something like "You don't find anyone to help you geomance your Astral Hazing." For self-reliance, mostly. And because if you foot the bill yourself, your GM is more willing to go through with it.

Also, the geomancer in question would have to be the same tradition as yourself, otherwise it'd be worse than just having Astral Hazing. Imagine a shaman getting a mage to geomance hims AH, only to find out that it only works with Hermetics now. Now nearly every run that involves wage-mages will turn into a slaughterfest against the poor guy.