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[LowKey]

Hey folks,

Just got a quick question that needs a confirmation, checked through books but couldn't see anything solid.

I've got a character with a martial art (Arnis De Mano) and blades skill, and I'm confused which skill rating would be used in an attack. Do I:

A) Use the martial art skill
B) Use the blade skill
C) Use the lowest value rated?

I'm looking for a rulebook quotation for it to confirm it, as unless I get one the ruling will probably be for the lowest value and I'd rather not do myself out of dice to roll (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Smokeskin]

Yeah, you wouldn't get to use your dice from aikido either.

I'm not unfair to players unless they insist on it, since I have house rules for MA spec. They can pick in what situations they want it to apply, then pick a style that fits, or pick a style first and then select when the modifiers should apply.

That still doesn't mean they can choose capoeira and do handstand kicks in combat, or aikido and gently touch grown men on the wrist, and not get hit with penalties. That's like non-smartgun users wanting to shoot from the hip, that's going to land you a penalty too.

[Critias]

Yeah, you wouldn't get to use your dice from aikido either.

There's an awful lot of cops out there that'll be plenty surprised to learn you disapprove of pretty much their most common techniques. But, hey, you not only know better than the rulebooks, you know better than the hand to hand combat trainers at law enforcement agencies, too, right?

[Karoline]

There's an awful lot of cops out there that'll be plenty surprised to learn you disapprove of pretty much their most common techniques. But, hey, you not only know better than the rulebooks, you know better than the hand to hand combat trainers at law enforcement agencies, too, right?

Yeah, and I wonder how much of a penatly boxing gets outside of the ring. Because the fact is boxers are going to fall apart as soon as they're presented with anything more complicated than a jab. At least that's what I believe from my exceedingly limited knowledge of boxing, and thus I must be 100% correct no matter what kind of evidence might be presented otherwise.

Seriously though, I think that boxing would have massive penalties because they really aren't used to things like kicks.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Yeah, and I wonder how much of a penatly boxing gets outside of the ring. Because the fact is boxers are going to fall apart as soon as they're presented with anything more complicated than a jab. At least that's what I believe from my exceedingly limited knowledge of boxing, and thus I must be 100% correct no matter what kind of evidence might be presented otherwise.

Seriously though, I think that boxing would have massive penalties because they really aren't used to things like kicks.

Well boxers are trained how to fight more than almost any martial art as it is usually taught. They might not be trained specifically against kicks but its not like a kick is a mysterious power. Boxers by the way generally deliver the most force in there strikes than any other martial art.(though boxing is generally intended as a sport, I'd say if you bought it through unarmed combat you are trained in using it for combat/self defense). People like to belittle boxers speed and talent a lot, but most "fast" martial arts aren't really delivering much of there mass into the blow, boxers are trained in how to put most if not all of there mass into a punch making them devastating.

This doesn't mean boxers are supreme, like every martial art they have strengths and weaknesses. It is one of the most focused martial arts so in MMA tournaments it will fail against people with more diverse training. It is kind of a flaw in SR, but a boxer under the current rules might be Unarmed combat 5(7)boxing. But a more accurate depiction might be unarmed combat 3(7boxing), where as someone with mixed training but focused in a specific martial art would have the general 5 in unarmed combat and a specialization.

(amrchair knowledge of my art is supreme added to make some people happy, though this isn't the krav maga thread.)

As a side note smokeskin is somewhat right by the rules, but also wrong. There is a difference in not giving the specialization bonus because it doesn't fit your style, your punching with aikido, kicking with boxing, and its another thing to assign penalties because your armchair knowledge of a martial art makes you think it is inferior. A better way to use the rules would be to not allow the specialization bonus from capoeria when you don't have wide open spaces to capitalize in your moves or you may require somewhat stable terrain. I suspect this problem extends beyond martial arts though and for many groups. How many armchair computer nerds, gun nuts, scientists, bring there current day knowledge and inflict it upon the game world with modifiers galore because they know best.

[Smokeskin]

There is a difference in not giving the specialization bonus because it doesn't fit your style, your punching with aikido, kicking with boxing, and its another thing to assign penalties because your armchair knowledge of a martial art makes you think it is inferior. A better way to use the rules would be to not allow the specialization bonus from capoeria when you don't have wide open spaces to capitalize in your moves or you may require somewhat stable terrain. I suspect this problem extends beyond martial arts though and for many groups. How many armchair computer nerds, gun nuts, scientists, bring there current day knowledge and inflict it upon the game world with modifiers galore because they know best.

What I said was, I wouldn't allow capoeira specialization bonuses to apply to fighting, but if they insisted on using capoeira moves, I'd hit them with a called shot penalty (and they'd also get their spec so a net -2 dice). That isn't modifiers galore, that is way of letting a player do something flashy at the cost of effectiveness.

I can't say I have much direct experience with capoeira. There was a guy in my Krav Maga class that had done capoeira, and I've sparred with him, and he never used any capoeira moves, even though it was the only martial arts he knew well. I have a decent amount of sparring experience, and the fact that I can't imagine it being effective, never heard anyone speak of it as effective, does that count for something? How about that no one seems to be able to present anything that even indicates capoeira being effective? So far, the only thing we have is an MMA fight where a complete rookie gets KOed by a spinning backkick. With all the fight statistics and online videos and whatnot available, don't you think it is quite telling that there isn't any decent capoeira fighters amongst them? I found someone mentioned a few places as the best capoeira fighter in MMA, and I watched about 10 minutes of videos of him, and he didn't do a single thing that looked like capoeira - so he knows lots of capoeira and don't use it in fights, why could that be?

I've done martial arts for 4 years, for 2 of them I sparred regularly, and I've done a solid effort of trying to find any info pointing to someone succeeding with capoeira and failed to find anything, on the contrary I've found capoeira experts NOT using capoeira in fights. If you want to call that armchair knowledge, then what do you call the people here who haven't done any fighting, can't find any facts to support this claimed competitiveness of capoeira, and even post a video of a total amateur getting KOed by a capoeira practioneer as if it demonstrated anything?