The blind mage, A problem with targeting? Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Outline Switch to: Standard Switch to: Linear+

[Karoline]

So, I've seen it come up a couple times before, and was having trouble finding a thread on it (I'm sure there has been), so I figured I'd make a new thread to ask:

Can a blind mage target anything on the physical plane without touching it?

Now, it seems like most people accept that a blind mage can target the physical plane without trouble while astrally perceiving. The problem I have with that is that an aura cannot be used to target something, and there is never anything which states that astral can target a spot on the physical plane by saying 'that spot right there but on the physical plane'.

The closest I can find is

An astrally perceiving
(or otherwise dual natured) magician can cast spells on a
target in either the physical world or in astral space.

but it doesn't specify that you can use astral sight to target something, simply that it is possible to cast a physical spell while perceiving, which can be done via touch spells, or in the case of duel natured creatures, by viewing through their physical senses.

So, is there anything more concrete that says you can in fact use astral sight to target a spell on the physical plane?

[Angelone]

I may be misunderstanding most of your arguements, but I have to go with Karoline on this one. If you are blind and astrally percieving you see auras not actual people. So the auras are what you can target with direct spells. Which opens up another can of worms by basically ruling that mages and spirits can wtfpwn someone from the astral plane without any fear.

[knasser]

I may be misunderstanding most of your arguements, but I have to go with Karoline on this one. If you are blind and astrally percieving you see auras not actual people. So the auras are what you can target with direct spells. Which opens up another can of worms by basically ruling that mages and spirits can wtfpwn someone from the astral plane without any fear.

No. You can't target a plane you're not present on. That's clearly stated in the rules. If you're dual natured, you can target either. If you're astral only, you can target the astral only and if you're physical only, you can target the physical only. It doesn't matter if you can perceive the other plane if you're not present there.

What we have is a situation where the rules say one thing, but a popular interpretation of the fluff (you're only seeing auras so you can't use only these to target a body on the physical plane) doesn't fit with that. However, I don't see that this fluff interpretation is required. If you're on the physical plane, then you're on the right plane to affect physical bodies. Maybe you can direct the spell energy at those physical bodies by knowing where their aura is. It needn't be a problem.

K.

[Karoline]

What we have is a situation where the rules say one thing, but a popular interpretation of the fluff (you're only seeing auras so you can't use only these to target a body on the physical plane) doesn't fit with that.

Where, anywhere in the entire series of 4e books, does it say "Astral sight can be used to target physical spells."? The only thing I've found is a statement that while astrally perceiving you can cast physical spells at a target but the book never makes mention of if an aura can be used to target something (Except that it is not sufficient to effect anything from the astral plane).

So, please don't claim that the rules say you can use astral sight to target physical spells until you can provide a quote and page reference that states that specifically.

So far I've not heard anyone supporting physical spells targeted with astral sight pull out any rules references. Until then, it remains an interpretation of the rules based on if you can target things by going 'That spot, but on the physical plane instead of the astral plane' which seems unlikely, because in order to target something, you must see it, and with astral sight, you don't actually see anything on the physical plane, just shadows of it.