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Deadjester
post Jan 30 2006, 05:35 PM
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From: Orlando, Florida
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Greetings all, my first time here and I have enjoyed reading the fourms and have seen quit a few intelligent people here discussing this and that so this seemed the place to go to.

My group and I have played Shadowrun on and off over the years and have now bought SR4. We think SR4 is a great improvment over the previous versions but still needs some tweeking like any game and so we are working on a few of our own.

We had done quit a bit so far and may post them later to see what everyone thinks but for now I have this question.

Right now we are working on ammo and I was talking to a x merc friend I know about the Explosive rounds and it raised a few questions for us.

It describes the explosive rounds as a solid slug that fragments and explodes on impact. Well it can't be solid by its very nature, its more or less like a hollow point with some explosive in it from what I was told by my friend.

So these are my questions.

1) Should a explosive round be off of Ballistic or Impact Armor?

2) Based off of Ballistic, shouldnt the stats look more like:
a) Explosive rounds: +1 AP, +1 DV
b) Ex Explosive rounds: +1 AP, +2 DV

From what I have read and talked to some military people I know, I don't see how it would have such a AP mod as it does. It would seem the explosive, fragmentation part would be more damage then it would be AP, and would expend its force on the armor and then the body.

Also from what I know of AP rounds, shouldnt any type of AP (APDS) rounds actualy reduce the damage by -1 DV while reducing the AP value? Since they more or less pass right through you without any fragmentation or bounce effects going on within the body?

We are debating of making all rounds on the ballistic chart for ease of ammo comparison and leaving impact for all else.

Such as if Flechette was based off ballistic, it might look like +3 AP, +2 DV and be very cheap and availability. Not everyone shoud be walking around in armor 24/7 and would make it effective ammo for those that are not.

Also, things arent always fair or equal on give and take when it comes to tech, somtimes the balancing factor is in the cost and availability which I think many forget.

Looking foward to hearing your thoughts on this.

Deadjester


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Posts in this topic
- Deadjester   House Rules, Ammo questions   Jan 30 2006, 05:35 PM
- - Austere Emancipator   QUOTE (Deadjester)It would seem the explosive, fra...   Jan 30 2006, 06:21 PM
- - Sigfried McWild   Regarding flechette rounds, see other threads like...   Jan 30 2006, 06:55 PM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) They could also be mor...   Jan 30 2006, 07:00 PM
- - Deadjester   Hmm I don't know how I missed some of that log...   Jan 30 2006, 11:02 PM
- - Sigfried McWild   I like that idea, at the moment +1DV is for all pu...   Jan 30 2006, 11:12 PM
- - Shrike30   Digging way into the realms of sci-fi here... My ...   Jan 30 2006, 11:30 PM
- - Austere Emancipator   What you're describing is basically like the m...   Jan 30 2006, 11:38 PM
- - Shrike30   The main difference between the two round types (a...   Jan 30 2006, 11:59 PM
- - Austere Emancipator   QUOTE (Shrike30)Half of the combustibles in the ro...   Jan 31 2006, 12:23 AM
- - Deadjester   Ok after reading some forums, I have come up with ...   Jan 31 2006, 10:42 PM
- - Shrike30   QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) A handheld laser weapo...   Jan 31 2006, 11:30 PM
- - Brahm   The fundemantal problem is that you get about 30:1...   Jan 31 2006, 11:57 PM
- - Austere Emancipator   QUOTE (Shrike30)Isn't that kind of dependent u...   Feb 1 2006, 12:45 AM
- - Galmorez   The ammo, armor penetration, and final DV rules fo...   Feb 1 2006, 12:47 AM
- - Space Ghost   There doesn't really need to be a lot of pow i...   Feb 1 2006, 12:53 AM
- - Austere Emancipator   QUOTE (Space Ghost)The focus could be on how the r...   Feb 1 2006, 12:59 AM
- - Galmorez   Double post! I also am pretty sure that som...   Feb 1 2006, 01:00 AM
- - Shrike30   QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)Would you care to compa...   Feb 1 2006, 01:04 AM
- - Austere Emancipator   QUOTE (Galmorez)4. Propel the projectile with elec...   Feb 1 2006, 01:25 AM
- - Austere Emancipator   QUOTE (Shrike30)I guess this raises the question o...   Feb 1 2006, 01:33 AM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Austere Emancipator @ Jan 31 2006, 08:...   Feb 1 2006, 04:42 AM
- - Brahm   If you replaced the core of the slug with DU, or b...   Feb 1 2006, 05:22 AM
- - hyzmarca   The enviromental problems are minor compared to th...   Feb 1 2006, 05:50 AM
- - Austere Emancipator   QUOTE (Brahm)These also tend to be very hard metal...   Feb 1 2006, 10:16 AM
- - nick012000   QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) QUOTE (Shrike30)What k...   Feb 1 2006, 10:56 AM
- - PH3NOmenon   Not that the "realism" discussion sin...   Feb 1 2006, 12:35 PM
- - Austere Emancipator   QUOTE (nick012000)[...] 20mm minigrenades are as e...   Feb 1 2006, 12:43 PM
- - Deadjester   Ok from what I am reading it is pretty obvious tha...   Feb 1 2006, 01:08 PM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (PH3NOmenon)With this in mind has anyone dra...   Feb 1 2006, 01:37 PM
- - Azralon   QUOTE (Galmorez @ Jan 31 2006, 08:47 PM) So, ...   Feb 1 2006, 03:57 PM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 1 2006, 08:37 AM) QUOTE...   Feb 1 2006, 04:30 PM
- - Brahm   @Serbitars House-rule Package If you want me to u...   Feb 1 2006, 04:39 PM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (Brahm @ Feb 1 2006, 11:30 AM) QUOTE (S...   Feb 1 2006, 06:16 PM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 1 2006, 01:16 PM) QUOTE...   Feb 1 2006, 06:33 PM
- - Serbitar   You are even proposing more changes than I do. (Re...   Feb 1 2006, 06:40 PM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 1 2006, 01:40 PM) You a...   Feb 1 2006, 07:03 PM
- - Serbitar   How do gel rounds and ExEx fit in this? How does t...   Feb 1 2006, 07:19 PM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 1 2006, 02:19 PM) How d...   Feb 1 2006, 07:38 PM
- - Brahm   If you really feel the need to include ExEx, just ...   Feb 1 2006, 07:43 PM
- - Brahm   Another good move is to drop the APDS moniker and ...   Feb 1 2006, 07:47 PM
- - hyzmarca   QUOTE (Shrike30) QUOTE (Austere Emancipator ...   Feb 1 2006, 07:52 PM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)Projectile jackets FTW....   Feb 1 2006, 08:59 PM
- - Austere Emancipator   Apart from schools, penetrating which is obviously...   Feb 1 2006, 09:30 PM
- - Brahm   Highly unlikely is about the best your can hope fo...   Feb 1 2006, 09:35 PM
- - Shrike30   QUOTE The Matrix is in wide use today, but without...   Feb 1 2006, 10:05 PM
- - Angelstandings   Normal Rounds..: +0 DV (vs. ballistic) Gell..........   Feb 4 2006, 01:27 AM
- - Eddie Furious   QUOTE (Brahm)The really screwy thing is that ExEx ...   Feb 4 2006, 02:04 AM
- - Angelstandings   Yeah, if you want to learn how to clean stuff, joi...   Feb 4 2006, 02:06 AM
- - mfb   QUOTE (Eddie Furious)I want to know exactly how ...   Feb 4 2006, 04:10 AM
- - Angelstandings   QUOTE (mfb @ Feb 3 2006, 11:10 PM) edit: er, ...   Feb 4 2006, 04:16 AM
- - mfb   hah. with a creative enough interpretation of the ...   Feb 4 2006, 04:24 AM
- - Angelstandings   The fluff strongly implies that all of the damage ...   Feb 4 2006, 04:29 AM
- - Azralon   QUOTE (Shrike30) Saying we've got the basis of...   Feb 4 2006, 04:31 AM
- - Angelstandings   Soon enough our military is going to have plasma b...   Feb 4 2006, 04:34 AM
- - mfb   breaking into fragments is basically a type of def...   Feb 4 2006, 04:41 AM
- - Angelstandings   Well, yeah The term deformation, when applied to...   Feb 4 2006, 04:48 AM
- - Deadjester   Hey Angelstandings and thanks for working on that ...   Feb 4 2006, 04:54 AM
- - Angelstandings   Well, whatever works for you guys I'd recomm...   Feb 4 2006, 05:01 AM
- - Deadjester   Aye, I hear ya. Everytime I change somthing I lo...   Feb 4 2006, 05:14 AM
- - Angelstandings   QUOTE (Deadjester @ Feb 4 2006, 12:14 AM) I f...   Feb 4 2006, 05:36 AM
- - Deadjester   Ya, I am not the best getting my ideas across typi...   Feb 4 2006, 06:36 AM
- - Angelstandings   QUOTE Armor is 8/6 I will assign success shifts f...   Feb 4 2006, 07:06 AM
- - Deadjester   No, not exactly. But disreguard my last post, the...   Feb 4 2006, 07:48 AM
- - Angelstandings   Oh haha... Hey, whatever... I just like throwing i...   Feb 4 2006, 07:50 AM
- - Shrike30   My fixes were relatively simple to apply... i just...   Feb 4 2006, 09:18 AM
- - Space Ghost   @Angelstandings i like your chart, and i may lo...   Feb 5 2006, 07:40 AM
- - Mauler   Thanks for all the good advice... I intend to modi...   Feb 5 2006, 11:57 PM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (Angelstandings @ Feb 3 2006, 08:27 PM)...   Feb 6 2006, 09:19 AM
- - nick012000   Stick 'n' Shock has a DV of 6S.   Feb 6 2006, 10:31 AM
- - Serbitar   Notice the "quoted by Serbitars House Rules...   Feb 6 2006, 11:06 AM
- - nick012000   Your point? EX-EX does virtually all of that. Okay...   Feb 6 2006, 11:09 AM
- - Serbitar   Just do the math, you'll find out. Include all...   Feb 6 2006, 12:34 PM
- - Angelstandings   I agree that stick-n-shock needs to be lowered a n...   Feb 6 2006, 03:16 PM
- - Serbitar   Would be nice. Bout you definatley have to include...   Feb 6 2006, 03:34 PM
- - Angelstandings   @Serbitor Your ammo rules are better balanced tha...   Feb 6 2006, 03:48 PM
- - Serbitar   I just made a calc sheet to compare the difference...   Feb 6 2006, 05:21 PM
- - Brahm   @Serbitar, I've got an older version of Excel ...   Feb 6 2006, 06:35 PM
- - Angelstandings   QUOTE (Brahm @ Feb 6 2006, 01:35 PM) QUOTE (...   Feb 6 2006, 06:44 PM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Angelstandings @ Feb 6 2006, 01:44 PM)...   Feb 6 2006, 06:51 PM
- - Angelstandings   Sure, it removes/adds the same amount, but that am...   Feb 6 2006, 06:55 PM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Angelstandings @ Feb 6 2006, 01:55 PM)...   Feb 6 2006, 08:50 PM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (Angelstandings @ Feb 6 2006, 01:44 PM)...   Feb 6 2006, 09:03 PM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 6 2006, 04:03 PM) Why I...   Feb 6 2006, 09:10 PM
- - Serbitar   http://www.serbitar.de/stuff/ammocheck.xls http://...   Feb 6 2006, 09:24 PM
- - Angelstandings   QUOTE (Brahm @ Feb 6 2006, 03:50 PM) I'm ...   Feb 6 2006, 09:28 PM
- - Serbitar   I think halving armour is not a good idea, because...   Feb 6 2006, 09:51 PM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Angelstandings @ Feb 6 2006, 04:28 PM)...   Feb 6 2006, 09:54 PM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 6 2006, 04:51 PM) No am...   Feb 6 2006, 10:05 PM
- - Serbitar   I like the "all or nothing" simply becau...   Feb 6 2006, 10:17 PM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Serbitar) I like the "all or nothing...   Feb 6 2006, 10:27 PM
- - Krotiez   QUOTE (Brahm) QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 6 2006, 0...   Feb 6 2006, 11:45 PM
- - Austere Emancipator   It's difficult to say for certain just how ser...   Feb 7 2006, 02:15 AM
- - Brahm   The canon penetration rules means that it is commo...   Feb 7 2006, 02:59 AM
- - Krotiez   QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) QUOTE (Krotiez)One int...   Feb 7 2006, 03:36 AM
- - Deadjester   I know for my group we think AP and DV should be k...   Feb 7 2006, 05:07 AM
- - Brahm   Just forget the Stun conversion altogether is prob...   Feb 7 2006, 05:22 AM
- - Shrike30   Dividing stun from gunfire (that's been reduce...   Feb 7 2006, 09:15 PM
- - Brahm   Sounds more like a "getting shot" proble...   Feb 7 2006, 09:17 PM
- - Azralon   QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 6 2006, 06:17 PM) And, ...   Feb 7 2006, 09:52 PM
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