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Rad
post Jul 28 2008, 06:55 AM
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I've been playing various RPGs for many years, but I'm still new to shadowrun. One differance I've noticed about the characters in SR4 is that they seem to be created with little room left for advancement in their primary abilities.

Mages are an exception, with initiation allowing them to raise magic pretty much indefinitely, but most mundane builds I see--including the sample characters--are pretty close to the maximum in their primary stats and skills right out of chargen.

For example, the street samurai on page 101 of the BBB (kudos to whoever arranged that, by the way) has his Agility, Automatics, and Unarmed Combat all at one point shy of their natural maximums--and he's already got some 'ware boosting those dicepools as well.

There's still some room for improvment through better equiptment, but it seems to me karma isn't going to make this guy much better at shooting or beating things up than he already is. Maybe +4 dice total, which averages out to a little more than 1 additional hit on tests?

That's another question I have. It seems like even with a thouroughly maxed-out dicepool, the total number of hits you're likely to get are obscenely low. A starting character with a skill and attribute of 5 is going to roll 10 dice, averaging a little more than 3 hits. Even at the upper limit, an average of 5-6 hits seems about all you can hope for, without spending edge. Considering how many things in SR4 are opposed tests dependent on net hits for the result, I have a hard time seeing how you can accomplish much of anything unless your opponent either rolls poorly or is seriously outclassed.

Since I'm going to be starting my first game soon, I wanted to get some input from more experienced players about how character design and advancement works in SR4. Is it normal to be "the best of the best" right out of the can and improve through gear and diversification rather than continuing to boost your primary abilities? Or do characters just not live that long in shadowrun? The rules seem to make improving your character through karma a much slower process than other rpgs, and the combat system is incredibly lethal, so are shadowrun characters just not expected to live long enough to get more than one or two bumps to their attributes/skills?

More importaintly, if I try to play a character who isn't a horribly min/maxed specialist (by other RPG's standards) is he going to get his hoop kicked and/or be absolutely useless compared to everyone else in the game? At what point does a character's dicepool hit the "you shouldn't be trying to do this" range?

For a system that claims to have no character classes, it sure seems hard to de
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Posts in this topic
- Rad   Beginning Shadowrunner Needs Advice...   Jul 28 2008, 06:55 AM
- - JudgementLoaf   A lot of character advancement is based on things ...   Jul 28 2008, 07:08 AM
- - hyzmarca   If you're starting character only has 10 dice ...   Jul 28 2008, 07:42 AM
|- - Dashifen   QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Jul 28 2008, 02:42 AM) ...   Jul 28 2008, 01:59 PM
- - Glyph   Generally, how much you maximize your specialty de...   Jul 28 2008, 07:56 AM
- - Ryu   QUOTE (Rad @ Jul 28 2008, 08:55 AM) That...   Jul 28 2008, 11:38 AM
- - noonesshowmonkey   SR4 is extremely different from most classic RPGs....   Jul 28 2008, 12:58 PM
- - Gelare   I'll avoid repeating what the other posters ha...   Jul 28 2008, 01:51 PM
- - DireRadiant   The BP system allows you a lot of choice in how yo...   Jul 28 2008, 02:11 PM
- - psychophipps   Wow. Just...Wow. I say that you should just make ...   Jul 28 2008, 02:30 PM
- - masterofm   The problem that you can have in some games (depen...   Jul 28 2008, 03:43 PM
|- - Shiloh   QUOTE (masterofm @ Jul 28 2008, 04:43 PM)...   Jul 28 2008, 04:04 PM
- - De Badd Ass   The big difference between Shadowrun and, for exam...   Jul 28 2008, 05:30 PM
- - Murrdox   I think newbie Shadowrunners are defined more by w...   Jul 28 2008, 07:13 PM
|- - De Badd Ass   QUOTE (Murrdox @ Jul 28 2008, 02:13 PM) I...   Jul 28 2008, 11:33 PM
- - ElFenrir   I and a few of my buddies were discussing the whol...   Jul 28 2008, 07:31 PM
- - Ed_209a   You don't have to be a face, but being able to...   Jul 28 2008, 07:35 PM
- - shuya   i think a big part of the "uber-specializatio...   Jul 28 2008, 10:29 PM
- - Carriage   Would starting with 300BP but giving more karma gi...   Jul 28 2008, 11:05 PM
- - Backgammon   Do not conserve ammo and always cut deals with dra...   Jul 28 2008, 11:09 PM
- - ElFenrir   Well, from my experience, 300 BPs are about lower-...   Jul 28 2008, 11:25 PM
|- - Carriage   QUOTE (ElFenrir @ Jul 29 2008, 09:25 AM) ...   Jul 28 2008, 11:46 PM
|- - ElFenrir   QUOTE (Carriage @ Jul 28 2008, 06:46 PM) ...   Jul 29 2008, 12:09 AM
- - Cadmus   Yes, its amazing how many run away city buses ther...   Jul 28 2008, 11:43 PM
- - Aiolos Turin   My group had a great idea for our first time as sh...   Jul 28 2008, 11:51 PM
- - Delta56   I had a thought come up about building Runners. ...   Jul 29 2008, 12:17 AM
|- - Backgammon   QUOTE (Delta56 @ Jul 28 2008, 07:17 PM) I...   Jul 29 2008, 01:11 AM
- - Rad   Wow, lots of help here. (And a few cheeky slots: I...   Jul 29 2008, 02:14 AM
- - masterofm   John Q. Everyman depending on how you run it is a ...   Jul 29 2008, 03:20 AM
- - Glyph   Some more points: While characters can start out ...   Jul 29 2008, 03:59 AM
- - Cthulhudreams   Characters in shadowrun naturally 'round out...   Jul 29 2008, 04:29 AM
- - Rad   Hmm, I suppose this is what I get for calling myse...   Jul 29 2008, 06:57 AM
- - masterofm   No need to get a little snippy. For one thing on ...   Jul 29 2008, 07:36 AM
- - Glyph   I don't know if it's intentional or not, b...   Jul 29 2008, 08:02 AM
- - Rad   Sorry if I'm a bit irritable--I haven't ha...   Jul 29 2008, 08:41 AM
- - ElFenrir   Well, again...''minimum effective DP'...   Jul 29 2008, 09:27 AM
- - Denicalis   The point of the Shadowrun system is that it's...   Jul 29 2008, 09:49 AM
- - Rad   Yeah, I keep hearing that, Denicalis, but in pra...   Jul 29 2008, 10:00 AM
- - ElFenrir   Adept will work well. Critical strike is only .25 ...   Jul 29 2008, 10:08 AM
- - Ryu   Cutoff levels depend on the skill. One net hit is...   Jul 29 2008, 10:34 AM
- - sunnyside   Oh and a comment on character growth that I don...   Jul 29 2008, 10:46 AM
- - Rad   Thanks for the advice everyone, but seriously, cha...   Jul 29 2008, 11:03 AM


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