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> Shadowrunner: Why I've never used this term in Game. Ever., Professional Criminals
Paul
post Aug 21 2009, 02:35 AM
Post #1


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First let me give some back ground. I've played Shadowrun for about 20 years now, and I love it. It's been one of my favorite games consistently for a variety of reasons: quality of ideas; quality of writing; quality of inspiration. (Notice Crunch doesn't make my top three list. That's important.)

However my vision of the game, I think, vastly differs from what I see as the average "Cyberpunk" game out there. I draw my inspiration from a variety of sources-my career in Law Enforcement, my time in the Military (Hey does Derek still post around here these days?); popular culture (Movies like Heat, Ronin, The Way of the Gun, and more. Comic Books like Fables, The Walking Dead, and many more. Music like Aphex Twin, NIN, Machines of Loving Grace, etc...) My game is more Noir in some respects, definitely grittier, and far less "Punk" than how the game is presented.

Now I get we all get to bring our own vision's to the table, and that's fun. So please don't think I'm missing that point. Iget the Gamer Police won't show up on my door step if I don't use YoTC, or stuff I don't like. I also get the people selling the game aren't doing it for free, and that one of the many ways they keep the game alive is attracting a new market.

Now all of that said this thread is inspired by a post I've quoted below, and is intended to be a discussion of what it means to be a Professional Criminal, which I believe is different from Criminal, and certainly much removed from "Violent" and "Unstable". So feel free to contribute, try not take it too personal, and most of all have fun!

A Note

I've removed the specific poster's name from this post, although I am sure any one can easily figure out who posted it. My intent is not to single this poster out, and harass them. Rather their post inspired me to make this post, and it's been one of the more fun posts I've written for any forum in a long while. Please respect this user's privacy, and please refrain from getting to harsh. I've tried to keep my comments lighthearted, and tried to refrain from making it a personal attack. (I'm not sure if I succeeded, and if I failed my apologies.)

QUOTE
Ok, let's go over this again: we're talking about professional criminals.


Well see here's the rub my friend. There's professional criminals and there's Professional Criminals. I work in a prison, and I am around people who've chosen Crime as a profession all day nearly every day. There's a pretty huge difference, in my book, between a Thug and a Professional. Anyone can commit a crime. It's pretty easy. Sure society tries to differentiate between "Serious" crimes and "Non-serious" crimes. (Or if you prefer violent, non violent, property damage, etc...etc...) but the fact is we're really bad at it. Most people get away with more crimes than they are caught for.

Talk to any convict and they'll tell you that they committed tens, if not hundreds of offenses prior to being committed. Even more after they've been committed.

Being a Criminal is like any other job. Some people care about what they do, and how they do it. Some guys are going to burn the place down if we take their stapler one last time. Being a good criminal, in a lot of ways, is like being a good soldier or spy, or actor. In fact it sort of involves being all of those things at once in order to be successful. (A term I reluctant to use, successful, because it's subjective. We'll all define it just a little differently.)

To me the point of a "Shadowrunner" (Seriously? Who would say that? Who? No one that's who.) is that you aren't some jack ass with a day glow mohawk drawing attention to what you're doing. You're a nameless, faceless, anonymous ghost in the machine. You can be anyone. You can be anywhere. You can do anything. (Or at least make people believe you can.) That doesn't mean you're an amoral slob who'd jump out of a bush to touch kids funny. Even hardened killers (There are few of these in reality, most people kill one or a few people whom they tend to know well enough to be emotionally invested into.) have codes of conduct.

QUOTE
...who hire themselves out for the purposes of committing crimes.


Ah but not every job has to be illegal, and not every crime is equal, or even unjust. Just because you commit crime for money doesn't mean you have to take any job that comes along. Every criminal, just like anyone else, has different goals. Some are obviously less noble than others.

QUOTE
In all probability, they are violent, unstable, and quite possibly clinically insane.


I think this is way too narrow of a definition, and utter bullshit to boot. It's nothing personal, but if that were true wouldn't playing Shadowrun amount to some sort emo sadomasochistic circle jerk? Even the game as presented isn't about being an amoral, unstable, violent, insane monster. Maybe that's how you roll, but in my game that shit would get you tossed out on your ass, unless you had a story to tell.

QUOTE
They probably shoot or otherwise seriously injure and/or kill people routinely as a matter of course, have little to no respect for authority, and are probably breaking all kinds of laws just because of the stuff they own, never mind the stuff they do.


I think all of that can be true, but those are the guys who get caught, and do hard, hard time. For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction. Remember that? No where is it more true than law enforcement. Ever been pulled over? Were a prick to the cop writing you a ticket? No? Why not? Because he could shoot your ass, right? Or write another ticket. Or search your car. Contempt of Cop is a pretty common offense, especially inside prison walls. (No that doesn't make it right, or even common place. It is what it is. I am not saying every cop is dirty, or that every cop is looking to bust your balls.)

Kill a boat load of people in my game, and guess what? Local, County, State, National, and International Law Enforcement people start looking for you. Unless it's the job to kill, why bother? A wounded security guard can only press charges against you for malicious wounding, felonious assault, and/or felon in possession of a firearm, right? A dead security has friends, family, and murder charges following you.

So yes, Use of Force is a tool in every Professional Criminal's tool box. But just like working in law Enforcement there should be a Use of Force Continuum. This isn't perfect but here's a decent example:

[img]http://www.cbp.gov/custoday/nov2000/images/force.gif[/img]

(Not sure why this isn't displaying, but just in case The Link

Notice it starts with Presence.

Presence is commonly defined as

QUOTE
Officer Presence. The mere presence of a highly visible uniform security officer or marked vehicle is often enough to stop a crime in progress or prevent future crime. Included in officer presence are standing, walking, running, and use of vehicle lights, horn, or speaker. Without saying a word, an alert officer can deter crime or direct criminals away from a property by use of body language and gestures. At this level gestures should be non-threatening and professional.


Follow up on each level, and their appropriate response. Use of Force is not cut and dried. Nor should it be. You don't use a screw driver to hammer a nail, and you don't use a hammer to open jars. The right tool for the right job.
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Posts in this topic
- Paul   Shadowrunner: Why I've never used this term in Game. Ever.   Aug 21 2009, 02:35 AM
- - Paul   QUOTE Private investigators and bodyguards don...   Aug 21 2009, 02:35 AM
|- - Kerrang   QUOTE (Paul @ Aug 20 2009, 08:35 PM) Okay...   Aug 21 2009, 05:16 AM
|- - shuya   QUOTE (Paul @ Aug 20 2009, 08:35 PM) Okay...   Aug 21 2009, 06:10 AM
|- - BobRoberts   shuya - that's an excellent post Think a gre...   Aug 21 2009, 09:29 AM
|- - Brazilian_Shinobi   QUOTE (BobRoberts @ Aug 21 2009, 06:29 AM...   Aug 21 2009, 01:32 PM
||- - BobRoberts   QUOTE (Ravor @ Aug 21 2009, 11:16 AM) Did...   Aug 21 2009, 04:18 PM
|- - Kerrang   QUOTE (BobRoberts @ Aug 21 2009, 04:29 AM...   Aug 21 2009, 02:29 PM
|- - Warlordtheft   QUOTE (BobRoberts @ Aug 21 2009, 04:29 AM...   Aug 21 2009, 06:10 PM
|- - The Jake   QUOTE (BobRoberts @ Aug 21 2009, 09:29 AM...   Oct 8 2009, 07:38 AM
|- - Karoline   QUOTE (The Jake @ Oct 8 2009, 03:38 AM) T...   Oct 9 2009, 12:58 AM
- - Paul   Stupid rules about "Maximum" number of q...   Aug 21 2009, 02:35 AM
- - LurkerOutThere   I support your views and wish to subscribe to your...   Aug 21 2009, 02:47 AM
- - Paul   A lot of guys who lose their tin, especially midst...   Aug 21 2009, 02:50 AM
- - LurkerOutThere   Yea, for those who are wondering Paul is reffering...   Aug 21 2009, 03:08 AM
- - RunnerPaul   Although the video is played for comedy, intended ...   Aug 21 2009, 03:38 AM
- - Totentanz   Bravo. +1. I'm new to SR, and I've only ...   Aug 21 2009, 04:03 AM
- - CanadianWolverine   I like your take on things ... only, like the quot...   Aug 21 2009, 04:03 AM
- - Ravor   I have to disagree, I don't think Pink Mohawks...   Aug 21 2009, 04:10 AM
|- - CanadianWolverine   QUOTE (Ravor @ Aug 20 2009, 09:10 PM) I h...   Aug 21 2009, 04:24 AM
- - Ravor   Not sure that I actually disagree, well with the e...   Aug 21 2009, 04:35 AM
- - hobgoblin   heh, the pink mohawk may survive, if he is profess...   Aug 21 2009, 04:37 AM
|- - CanadianWolverine   QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Aug 20 2009, 09:37 PM)...   Aug 21 2009, 05:19 AM
- - Earlydawn   Pink mohawks could survive in the world I read out...   Aug 21 2009, 05:15 AM
- - Bugfoxmaster   I've always operated under the assumption that...   Aug 21 2009, 05:54 AM
- - Ravor   Pink Mohawk is style over substance where-as Ice C...   Aug 21 2009, 06:00 AM
- - Ravor   Did your characters have the proper skills, knowle...   Aug 21 2009, 10:16 AM
- - kanislatrans   I think the Pink mohawk/vs professional issue was ...   Aug 21 2009, 12:56 PM
|- - Fix-it   Kill a boat load of people in my game, and guess w...   Aug 23 2009, 01:25 AM
|- - kanislatrans   QUOTE (Fix-it @ Aug 22 2009, 09:25 P...   Aug 23 2009, 04:02 AM
|- - Kerrang   QUOTE (Fix-it @ Aug 22 2009, 08:25 P...   Aug 23 2009, 04:17 PM
|- - nylanfs   QUOTE (Kerrang @ Aug 23 2009, 11:17 AM) N...   Oct 8 2009, 11:59 PM
|- - Cardul   QUOTE (Kerrang @ Aug 23 2009, 11:17 AM) N...   Oct 10 2009, 08:06 AM
- - hobgoblin   a orc, a troll and a dwarf walked into a hotel...   Aug 21 2009, 01:24 PM
- - hobgoblin   raise of hands, how many seasoned RPG GMs read the...   Aug 21 2009, 02:26 PM
|- - Kerrang   QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Aug 21 2009, 09:26 AM)...   Aug 21 2009, 02:39 PM
|- - Brazilian_Shinobi   QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Aug 21 2009, 11:26 AM)...   Aug 21 2009, 03:20 PM
- - Chrysalis   Listening to Aphex Twin's Windowlicker. I th...   Aug 21 2009, 03:11 PM
- - InfinityzeN   Right now I have some involvement in both play sty...   Aug 21 2009, 03:25 PM
|- - Brazilian_Shinobi   QUOTE (InfinityzeN @ Aug 21 2009, 12:25 P...   Aug 21 2009, 03:36 PM
- - underaneonhalo   Great post, everything you've said meshes with...   Aug 21 2009, 03:31 PM
- - InfinityzeN   Easiest thing to do when people in the group want ...   Aug 21 2009, 04:01 PM
- - Kerrang   I try to be flexible as a GM, and make the style f...   Aug 21 2009, 04:12 PM
- - explorator   Great thread. Shadowrunners vs. Professional Crim...   Aug 21 2009, 04:36 PM
- - Kev   Paul, I agree with a lot of what you've said....   Aug 21 2009, 05:39 PM
|- - Paul   QUOTE (Kev @ Aug 21 2009, 01:39 PM) Somet...   Aug 21 2009, 06:16 PM
|- - Mäx   QUOTE (Paul @ Aug 21 2009, 09:16 PM) I th...   Aug 21 2009, 09:32 PM
- - Paul   In my 20 plus years of running games, I have rarel...   Aug 21 2009, 06:19 PM
- - The Monk   It all depends on the setting doesn't it? Ther...   Aug 21 2009, 06:41 PM
|- - InfinityzeN   QUOTE (The Monk @ Aug 21 2009, 01:41 PM) ...   Aug 21 2009, 06:51 PM
|- - Paul   QUOTE (The Monk @ Aug 21 2009, 01:41 PM) ...   Aug 21 2009, 07:27 PM
- - Bugfoxmaster   Yup! Pretty much standard. Unless you REALLY p...   Aug 21 2009, 07:22 PM
- - Dr. Funkenstein   QUOTE To me the point of a "Shadowrunner...   Aug 21 2009, 07:36 PM
|- - Paul   QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Aug 21 2009, 02...   Aug 21 2009, 10:56 PM
|- - Mäx   QUOTE (Paul @ Aug 22 2009, 01:56 AM) I do...   Aug 21 2009, 11:17 PM
|- - Paul   QUOTE (Mäx @ Aug 21 2009, 06:17 PM) What...   Aug 21 2009, 11:28 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Mäx @ Aug 21 2009, 05:17 PM) What...   Aug 22 2009, 09:41 PM
- - Bugfoxmaster   Also Lawyers, who find every way in the world to r...   Aug 21 2009, 07:49 PM
- - Stahlseele   I like to call myself, a professional Problem. Or ...   Aug 21 2009, 11:24 PM
- - Dr. Funkenstein   QUOTE (Paul)QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein)It's a coll...   Aug 22 2009, 02:26 AM
- - Dikotana   In some ways, shadowrunners are the mafia. Not in ...   Aug 22 2009, 12:21 PM
- - Ravor   I have to agree, with the exception of attaching ...   Aug 22 2009, 04:08 PM
- - The Monk   Except the lieutenant has a review coming up and i...   Aug 22 2009, 10:22 PM
- - LurkerOutThere   And don't forget that memo from information se...   Aug 22 2009, 10:46 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Aug 22 2009, 04:4...   Aug 23 2009, 06:01 AM
- - Cardul   OK, so, reading this thread, I am wondering why pe...   Aug 23 2009, 03:09 AM
- - LurkerOutThere   What are you talking about, there was no Highlande...   Aug 23 2009, 04:08 AM
- - Ravor   Exactly, there was only one.   Aug 23 2009, 04:13 AM
- - LurkerOutThere   Which goes back to a cost benefit scenario, assumi...   Aug 23 2009, 06:31 AM
- - kzt   You misunderstand. You bribe a DBA and a security...   Aug 23 2009, 07:16 AM
- - Ravor   Not forever, just until the accounts are updated. ...   Aug 23 2009, 02:44 PM
- - eidolon   QUOTE (Fix-it)worst. movie. evar. It might n...   Aug 23 2009, 11:50 PM
- - mfb   i almost agree with the OP. the types of criminal...   Aug 24 2009, 01:18 AM
- - AK404   This would probably be my first post here in years...   Oct 7 2009, 10:02 PM
- - wind_in_the_stones   Good post. I missed it, first time around. Thanks ...   Oct 8 2009, 02:28 AM
- - Paul   I've always believed that if you're having...   Oct 8 2009, 01:43 PM


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