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> Concealment Power too powerful?
camberiu
post Sep 11 2011, 09:58 PM
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Please bare with me, as I am still learning the SR4 system (I am a SR2 vet).


It seems to me that the Concealment Power as described in the core book is way too powerful and would allow the players to basically waltz in almost anywhere with impunity.


Let's take for example, a character with an infiltration skill of 4 and an agility stat of 5. Now let's imagine that a friendly Force 6 Spirit uses his Concealment power on this character. Basically, from that point on anyone trying to perceive that character on the physical plane would be subjected to a -6 dice modifier AND with whatever dice pool left, would have to beat the character's Infiltration 4 + Agility 5 on a perception roll? I can't think of many places that this fella would not be able to get into. Yeah, he probably would not be able to waltz into the Aztechnology Pyramid and a few similar places, but pretty much any other lesser places would be wide open to him. Or am I missing something here?

Now, let's say this guy gets really daring and manages to convince his mage friend with Magic Attribute of 6, to summon a Force 12 Spirit. Let's say the mage friend manages to summon a force 12 spirit (and survive). Now this force 12 spirit could conceal this guy on our example and cause anyone trying to perceive him to suffer a -12 penalty on perception tests, both physically and astrally.

Now, if this I described so far is correct, my question is: Where would'd this fellow be able to sneak into? Worse, with a Force 12 spirit with concealment power, I could potentially turn any crappy commuter plane into a Stealth bomber for hell.

I must be missing something, because this power seems to be too unbalanced to make the game practical. Please let me know what I might not be considering here. Thanks.
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Posts in this topic
- camberiu   Concealment Power too powerful?   Sep 11 2011, 09:58 PM
- - Fatum   Yeah, Concealment is broken. This is partly evened...   Sep 11 2011, 10:14 PM
- - TheOOB   Concealment is good, but I don't think it...   Sep 11 2011, 10:24 PM
|- - camberiu   QUOTE (TheOOB @ Sep 11 2011, 11:24 PM) Co...   Sep 11 2011, 10:31 PM
|- - Bodak   QUOTE (TheOOB @ Sep 12 2011, 08:24 AM) Co...   Sep 12 2011, 02:55 AM
- - LurkerOutThere   I've found the biggest check to place on conce...   Sep 11 2011, 10:50 PM
- - Nath   Force 12 spirits are too powerful, no matter which...   Sep 11 2011, 10:51 PM
|- - Mardrax   QUOTE (Nath @ Sep 12 2011, 12:51 AM) Othe...   Sep 11 2011, 11:02 PM
|- - Nath   QUOTE (Nath @ Sep 12 2011, 12:51 AM) Othe...   Sep 12 2011, 05:08 PM
- - Summerstorm   Pretty much ALL powers are overpowered. The simple...   Sep 11 2011, 11:13 PM
- - Critias   Don't forget that Concealment only helps again...   Sep 11 2011, 11:24 PM
- - Yerameyahu   It is indeed a great power, though. It's good ...   Sep 11 2011, 11:27 PM
- - Saint Hallow   I play at Camberiu's game & can tell you f...   Sep 12 2011, 03:12 AM
|- - Critias   QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Sep 11 2011, 10:12 ...   Sep 12 2011, 03:16 AM
- - Saint Hallow   Our mage summons a powerful spirit to use it conce...   Sep 12 2011, 03:24 AM
|- - Manunancy   QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Sep 12 2011, 05:24 ...   Sep 12 2011, 06:23 AM
|- - Aerospider   QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Sep 12 2011, 04:24 ...   Sep 12 2011, 07:27 AM
- - Irion   QUOTE you method is effective but not foolproof, i...   Sep 12 2011, 06:54 AM
- - Machiavelli   Did you all recognize that most of the so broken p...   Sep 12 2011, 07:56 AM
- - ikarinokami   I had to smile at this thread. The mage in questio...   Sep 12 2011, 09:35 AM
|- - Seriously Mike   QUOTE (ikarinokami @ Sep 12 2011, 11:35 A...   Sep 12 2011, 11:12 AM
|- - Fortinbras   Don't forget that to use the Critter powers li...   Sep 12 2011, 04:35 PM
|- - Mikado   QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Sep 12 2011, 07:1...   Sep 12 2011, 08:25 PM
|- - Critias   QUOTE (Mikado @ Sep 12 2011, 03:25 PM) I ...   Sep 12 2011, 08:50 PM
- - Traul   *grabs popcorn*   Sep 12 2011, 09:37 AM
- - Blade   A thermal smoke grenade + a flash-pak + a loud exp...   Sep 12 2011, 09:59 AM
|- - Machiavelli   QUOTE (Blade @ Sep 12 2011, 10:59 AM) A t...   Sep 12 2011, 12:24 PM
- - Shortstraw   Screw the sensors I just set monowire all over my ...   Sep 12 2011, 10:13 AM
|- - X-Kalibur   QUOTE (Shortstraw @ Sep 12 2011, 02:13 AM...   Sep 12 2011, 05:54 PM
- - Irion   So it is the same result as usally: Summoning is b...   Sep 12 2011, 10:35 AM
|- - Aerospider   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 12 2011, 11:35 AM) So ...   Sep 12 2011, 11:44 AM
- - ikarinokami   The Gm was not abusing the spirits. Within the con...   Sep 12 2011, 10:52 AM
- - ikarinokami   Nope no dodge skill or reaction roll on firearms. ...   Sep 12 2011, 11:20 AM
|- - Seriously Mike   QUOTE (ikarinokami @ Sep 12 2011, 01:20 P...   Sep 12 2011, 12:18 PM
|- - ikarinokami   QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Sep 12 2011, 07:1...   Sep 12 2011, 12:35 PM
|- - Mardrax   QUOTE (ikarinokami @ Sep 12 2011, 02:35 P...   Sep 12 2011, 01:04 PM
|- - KarmaInferno   QUOTE (ikarinokami @ Sep 12 2011, 07:35 A...   Sep 12 2011, 02:11 PM
- - Machiavelli   KarmaInferno is right. If you donīt like to dodge,...   Sep 12 2011, 02:42 PM
- - camberiu   wait, what dodge has to do with the concealment po...   Sep 12 2011, 02:51 PM
|- - Critias   QUOTE (camberiu @ Sep 12 2011, 09:51 AM) ...   Sep 12 2011, 02:57 PM
|- - camberiu   QUOTE (Critias @ Sep 12 2011, 03:57 PM) I...   Sep 12 2011, 03:02 PM
- - Machiavelli   Sometimes you bring it down to the point...i like ...   Sep 12 2011, 02:59 PM
- - Saint Hallow   First off, let me say sorry for omitting some info...   Sep 12 2011, 03:12 PM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Sep 12 2011, 09:12 ...   Sep 12 2011, 06:06 PM
|- - ikarinokami   QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 12 2011, 02:06 PM) Wh...   Sep 12 2011, 06:20 PM
- - Traul   The problem is not Concealment, it is Concealment ...   Sep 12 2011, 03:14 PM
- - Saint Hallow   We have no houserule regarding drain. Our mage is...   Sep 12 2011, 03:21 PM
|- - Traul   QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Sep 12 2011, 04:21 ...   Sep 12 2011, 03:28 PM
|- - Critias   QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Sep 12 2011, 10:21 ...   Sep 12 2011, 03:30 PM
- - ikarinokami   I survived the summoning on the force 12 spirit be...   Sep 12 2011, 04:14 PM
- - DamienKnight   First... Force 12 spirits have 12 edge... they are...   Sep 12 2011, 04:47 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (DamienKnight @ Sep 12 2011, 11:47 ...   Sep 12 2011, 05:02 PM
|- - ikarinokami   QUOTE (DamienKnight @ Sep 12 2011, 12:47 ...   Sep 12 2011, 05:11 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (ikarinokami @ Sep 12 2011, 10:11 A...   Sep 12 2011, 05:49 PM
|- - ikarinokami   QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Sep 12 2011, 01...   Sep 12 2011, 05:57 PM
|- - Aerospider   QUOTE (ikarinokami @ Sep 12 2011, 06:57 P...   Sep 12 2011, 06:03 PM
|- - ikarinokami   QUOTE (Aerospider @ Sep 12 2011, 02:03 PM...   Sep 12 2011, 06:10 PM
|- - Aerospider   QUOTE (ikarinokami @ Sep 12 2011, 07:10 P...   Sep 12 2011, 07:08 PM
|- - ikarinokami   QUOTE (Aerospider @ Sep 12 2011, 02:08 PM...   Sep 12 2011, 07:29 PM
- - Seriously Mike   Uhhh... Isn't the drain value a constant you h...   Sep 12 2011, 04:55 PM
|- - ikarinokami   QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Sep 12 2011, 12:5...   Sep 12 2011, 05:14 PM
|- - Seriously Mike   QUOTE (ikarinokami @ Sep 12 2011, 07:14 P...   Sep 12 2011, 08:50 PM
- - Critias   I'm not normally an advocate of Spirits boning...   Sep 12 2011, 05:51 PM
|- - ikarinokami   QUOTE (Critias @ Sep 12 2011, 01:51 PM) I...   Sep 12 2011, 06:04 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (ikarinokami @ Sep 12 2011, 11:04 A...   Sep 12 2011, 06:11 PM
|- - Critias   QUOTE (ikarinokami @ Sep 12 2011, 01:04 P...   Sep 12 2011, 06:28 PM
|- - ikarinokami   QUOTE (Critias @ Sep 12 2011, 02:28 PM) A...   Sep 12 2011, 06:45 PM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Critias @ Sep 12 2011, 01:28 PM) A...   Sep 12 2011, 08:53 PM
|- - Dr.Rockso   QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 12 2011, 04:53 PM) Wi...   Sep 12 2011, 09:27 PM
||- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Dr.Rockso @ Sep 12 2011, 04:27 PM)...   Sep 12 2011, 09:28 PM
||- - Dr.Rockso   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Sep 12 2011, 05:28 PM) ...   Sep 12 2011, 09:35 PM
||- - Bodak   QUOTE (Dr.Rockso @ Sep 13 2011, 07:35 AM)...   Sep 13 2011, 09:07 AM
|- - Critias   QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 12 2011, 03:53 PM) Wi...   Sep 12 2011, 09:29 PM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Critias @ Sep 12 2011, 03:29 PM) S...   Sep 12 2011, 09:33 PM
- - Jazz   QUOTE (camberiu @ Sep 11 2011, 09:58 PM) ...   Sep 12 2011, 06:18 PM
- - Saint Hallow   First off... as was stated in the 1st post, our GM...   Sep 12 2011, 06:59 PM
|- - Mardrax   QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Sep 12 2011, 08:59 ...   Sep 12 2011, 07:31 PM
- - Aerospider   +10 Karma for Critias   Sep 12 2011, 07:10 PM
- - Irion   Spirts above force 6 tend to be out of sanity. Tha...   Sep 12 2011, 08:40 PM
- - camberiu   Thank you to all the folks who provided kind and c...   Sep 12 2011, 09:36 PM
|- - TheOOB   QUOTE (camberiu @ Sep 12 2011, 04:36 PM) ...   Sep 12 2011, 09:43 PM
- - Dr.Rockso   camberiu: Just a thought: The stealth bomber idea ...   Sep 12 2011, 09:54 PM
|- - camberiu   QUOTE (Dr.Rockso @ Sep 12 2011, 09:54 PM)...   Sep 12 2011, 09:55 PM
|- - Critias   QUOTE (Dr.Rockso @ Sep 12 2011, 04:54 PM)...   Sep 12 2011, 10:00 PM
- - camberiu   Please see the original post. 1 - I never asked ...   Sep 12 2011, 10:07 PM
|- - TheOOB   QUOTE (camberiu @ Sep 12 2011, 06:07 PM) ...   Sep 12 2011, 11:27 PM
|- - Critias   QUOTE (camberiu @ Sep 12 2011, 05:07 PM) ...   Sep 12 2011, 11:53 PM
- - Saint Hallow   Great... now that he knows of alternate ways aroun...   Sep 12 2011, 11:41 PM
|- - Traul   QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Sep 13 2011, 12:41 ...   Sep 13 2011, 12:04 AM
|- - Critias   QUOTE (Traul @ Sep 12 2011, 07:04 PM) Now...   Sep 13 2011, 12:15 AM
|- - Irion   QUOTE (Traul @ Sep 13 2011, 12:04 AM) Now...   Sep 13 2011, 07:11 AM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 13 2011, 02:11 AM) Hon...   Sep 13 2011, 07:19 AM
- - Neraph   QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Sep 11 2011, 10:24 ...   Sep 12 2011, 11:44 PM
- - Saint Hallow   The internet... designed to allow simple comments/...   Sep 13 2011, 12:01 AM
- - Saint Hallow   Out of respect to the GM, no more is to be said ab...   Sep 13 2011, 12:50 AM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Sep 12 2011, 06:50 ...   Sep 13 2011, 06:43 AM
- - KarmaInferno   It is difficult to have a productive conversation ...   Sep 13 2011, 01:52 AM
- - Irion   @Neraph SnS needs 7 net hits against a force 12 sp...   Sep 13 2011, 08:21 AM
- - Machiavelli   In prevoius editions "movement" was desc...   Sep 13 2011, 09:50 AM
- - pbangarth   I know I have said this before, but there are argu...   Sep 13 2011, 02:24 PM
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