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Sorry Pal, I Had To Hack Your Eyes
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Neurosis
post Jun 28 2013, 05:41 PM
Post #1


Moving Target
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Group: Members
Posts: 935
Joined: 2-September 10
Member No.: 19,000



I have never done this before, but there is a first time for everything. Someone is wrong on the internet nerd rage GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I have a terrible confession to make. I was one of the writers of Shadowrun 5th Edition. Actually, that in and of itself isn't the terrible confession, but I can see why you'd think so with some of the incendiary threads floating around here. The terrible confession is...I'm not sure I like SR5 all that much. I'm not sure I'd want to play it over SR4. Which is doubly fucked because I wrote the first full length adventure for SR5, I've been thinking about/working on SR5 since like 2011, my career progress/job security depends on working on sourcebooks and supplements for SR5, I get paychecks from a company whose revenue stream comes from selling SR5, and so on. But still, nothing about being a Catalyst Freelancer requires me to blindly champion SR5 or sing its praises; I can't lie about the fact that I have serious issues about SR5. I can't get into what those issues are, because that gets way too much into "how the sausage is made" and even now that the book is out, would probably violate NDA.

But one of the most common complaints I've seen people make about SR5, one of the things that some people are up in arms about, is just so overwhelmingly stupid that I can't remain silent about it. There are plenty of at least subjectively valid reasons to dislike SR5...I doubt even any one of the people who wrote it was 100% satisfied with the game, such is the nature of collaborative process...but complaining about the fact that cyberware can be hacked is completely idiotic. And I can address that without even cracking open an SR5 rulebook and getting into the nitty gritty rules on just how goddamn difficult and expensive it is for a decker to even attempt to hack someone's wireless enable cyberware (spoiler: it's way too expensive, and really goddamn hard).

First, before I go any further, I want you all to watch this video. Then, when I'm done making all my counter-arguments to common complaints I've seen, go back and watch this video again. Don't worry, it's under a minute.

SORRY PAL


Gut-check time. Was that...

A) SUPER FREAKING AWESOMSE!
B) Awesome
C) Pretty Cool
D) Laaaaaaaaaaaaame. (If you select this option, get off the internet, you can't be reasoned with.)

You see the primary reason I am baffled by the hue and cry about hacking cyberware is that HACKING CYBERWARE IS FUCKING COOL. It lets your PCs do what Batou just did to that Umibozu commando. And that's fucking awesome. It gives "Combat Hackers" something to hack during combat! Here are the secondary reasons that complaining about cyberware being hackable is stupid. And yes, as the list goes on, liberal use is made of Straw Man arguments (deal; these straw men are based on actual things actual people have actually said).

1) This is not a new thing. Cyberware was hackable in 4th Edition.

Ok....deep breath. Yes, you could switch your cyberware to DNI only, and skinlink everything, and effectively, in Frank Trollman terminology, "set hacking to off". But in casual, non-Missions play, not everyone did this. At my table, we certainly didn't do this. At my table, PCs could hack NPCs, NPCs could hack PCs, and the world went on. Hacking someone's gear was just another avenue of attack and another avenue to defend, like guns and magic. The SR4(A) rules don't explicitly state that cyberware can or cannot be hacked; there are certainly no "wireless bonuses", but I went with the default assumption that yes, Cyberware is a Device, has a Device Rating like anything else, and I could see plenty of in-universe reasons why it should be "always on". Hell, look at the XBone, and that's just a generation away from happening for real, let alone 2075. Think about how often your phone or your XBox or your computer's software needs to install updates. Almost daily, right? Cyberware is the same way, and needs to install firmware packages to stay current and stay relevant; the easiest solution to keeping the firmware up to date would be having it "always online". The security considerations of that are secondary...because no one is supposed to have the tools/talent to be able to hack cyberware anyway!

At my table, you could totally have something like what happened in that video occur in actual play.

That was the rational in my SR4 game. And outside of SR Missions...I am pretty sure that some other people were already running SR4 games where hacking cyberware as a thing you could do!

2) "Wahhhhhhhhhhhh! Hacking cyberware is not realistic! Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" SHUT UP!

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were a time traveling computer science major FROM THE FUTURE.

In that case, elves dragons wizards vampires bug spirits and shape-changing fox people would like to have A FUCKING WORD WITH YOU about "REALISM".

2) "Wahhhhhhhhh! Corporations wouldn't make and sell cyberware that could potentially be hacked! Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" SHUT UP!

This is such a ridiculous and laughable argument it makes me seethe with rage. Because phone companies wouldn't make and sell smartphones that could be cracked, right? Because game companies wouldn't make and sell PS3s that could be cracked, hacked, and 'sploited, right? Because corporations are made of people that are infallible and never make mistakes, right? Because megacorporations--especially in Shadowrun--care WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY more about the safety and security of their customers than the bottom line and making a quick buck? Oh, oh wait...oh yeah.

NONE OF THAT IS TRUE.

Megacorporations don't give a SHIT about the safety and security of their customers. You'll buy it because it's like the last one, only better. Then when shit does get hacks'd, they'll spin things to make them look like big damn heroes for trying to catch the hackers/closing the loophole.

And don't forget they make the 'warez and tools that are used for hacking shit...and for anti-hacking defense. So...cha-ching!

3) "Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! No one would ever install cyberware that could be hacked! Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" SHUT UP!

What. The. Fuck. This. Is. Shadowrun. Have you READ Shadowrun, at all? Have you read ANY of the classic SR Novels, at all? They tell the story of street criminals who are responsible members of society that never do anything short-sighted for a quick boost in power that they might one day come to regre---oh, oh wait.

Yeah, that's right, I remember now. In the Shadowrun fiction, people install Cyberware even though it GIVES THEM FUCKING CANCER. People install wired reflexes even though it gradually breaks down over time and stops working and gives them EPILEPSY FOR LIFE! Why? Because they WANT TO BE FASTER, AND DAMN THE CONSEQUENCES. The fact that someone some day might haxor it PALES in comparison to the fact that it could riddle your body with tumors or leave you a helpless twitching mass of SEIZURES, and those things literally don't stop people from installing all the cyberware they can afford.

4) "Wahhhh! Wahhhh! I JUST DON'T LIKE cyberware being hacked! It's icky! Wahhhhh!"

SHUT UP! WATCH THE VIDEO AGAIN!

And I'm done.

*drops mike, feedback squeals, lurches drunkenly off stage and back into obscurity*
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Posts in this topic
- Neurosis   Hacking Cyberware   Jun 28 2013, 05:41 PM
- - quentra   Hey buddy, I think a lot of people agree with you....   Jun 28 2013, 05:48 PM
- - Mach_Ten   I like you. You're funneh   Jun 28 2013, 05:51 PM
|- - Sunshine   QUOTE (Mach_Ten @ Jun 28 2013, 07:51 PM) ...   Jun 28 2013, 06:07 PM
|- - Sendaz   QUOTE (Sunshine @ Jun 28 2013, 01:07 PM) ...   Jun 28 2013, 06:43 PM
|- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jun 28 2013, 02:43 PM) Bu...   Jun 28 2013, 07:08 PM
- - Kruger   TL:DR That, and you'd said some patently stup...   Jun 28 2013, 05:52 PM
|- - quentra   QUOTE (Kruger @ Jun 28 2013, 01:52 PM) TL...   Jun 28 2013, 05:56 PM
|- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Kruger @ Jun 28 2013, 01:52 PM) TL...   Jun 28 2013, 06:22 PM
- - Sengir   So, you made a threat to regurgitate the "bat...   Jun 28 2013, 05:52 PM
|- - Mach_Ten   QUOTE (Sengir @ Jun 28 2013, 06:52 PM) So...   Jun 28 2013, 05:55 PM
|- - Daedelus   QUOTE (Sengir @ Jun 28 2013, 10:52 AM) So...   Jun 28 2013, 06:04 PM
|- - Sengir   QUOTE (Daedelus @ Jun 28 2013, 07:04 PM) ...   Jun 29 2013, 11:02 AM
- - Sendaz   Batou DOES make everything better.   Jun 28 2013, 05:58 PM
- - Jonny Reload   Wow this is a really awkward thread... I'm pre...   Jun 28 2013, 06:14 PM
- - bannockburn   Very bad form, Devon.   Jun 28 2013, 06:25 PM
- - nezumi   I am a computer science major from the future (jus...   Jun 28 2013, 06:28 PM
- - Draco18s   I had to null vote because the choices are loaded....   Jun 28 2013, 06:29 PM
|- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 28 2013, 02:29 PM) ...   Jun 28 2013, 07:05 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Tashiro @ Jun 28 2013, 02:05 PM) 1...   Jun 28 2013, 07:08 PM
|- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 28 2013, 03:08 PM) ...   Jun 28 2013, 07:17 PM
|- - Jonny Reload   QUOTE (Tashiro @ Jun 28 2013, 02:17 PM) I...   Jun 28 2013, 07:31 PM
- - cndblank   I had to null vote too. You are missing the point....   Jun 28 2013, 07:27 PM
- - Mäx   Video is pretty cool(as is all of GitS) but you po...   Jun 28 2013, 07:37 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Mäx @ Jun 28 2013, 02:37 PM) Probl...   Jun 28 2013, 07:41 PM
|- - cndblank   QUOTE (Mäx @ Jun 28 2013, 01:37 PM) Video...   Jun 28 2013, 07:42 PM
||- - Draco18s   QUOTE (cndblank @ Jun 28 2013, 02:42 PM) ...   Jun 28 2013, 07:43 PM
||- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 28 2013, 02:43 PM) ...   Jun 28 2013, 07:47 PM
|- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Mäx @ Jun 28 2013, 02:37 PM) Video...   Jun 28 2013, 07:47 PM
||- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Tashiro @ Jun 28 2013, 02:47 PM) T...   Jun 28 2013, 07:54 PM
|||- - Mäx   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 28 2013, 10:54 PM) ...   Jun 28 2013, 08:38 PM
|||- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Mäx @ Jun 28 2013, 03:38 PM) This ...   Jun 28 2013, 09:58 PM
||||- - Mäx   QUOTE (Tashiro @ Jun 29 2013, 12:58 AM) S...   Jun 28 2013, 10:29 PM
|||||- - Epicedion   QUOTE (Mäx @ Jun 28 2013, 05:29 PM) And t...   Jun 28 2013, 10:33 PM
||||||- - Mäx   QUOTE (Epicedion @ Jun 29 2013, 01:33 AM)...   Jun 28 2013, 10:37 PM
||||||- - Epicedion   QUOTE (Mäx @ Jun 28 2013, 05:37 PM) Sorry...   Jun 28 2013, 10:49 PM
||||||- - Cochise   QUOTE (Epicedion @ Jun 29 2013, 12:49 AM)...   Jun 28 2013, 11:03 PM
|||||- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Mäx @ Jun 28 2013, 06:29 PM) And t...   Jun 28 2013, 11:27 PM
||||- - Medicineman   @Lasersight Online Bonus QUOTE (Tashiro @ J...   Jun 29 2013, 06:27 AM
|||- - Remnar   QUOTE (Mäx @ Jun 28 2013, 08:38 PM) This ...   Jun 28 2013, 10:55 PM
||- - apple   QUOTE (Tashiro @ Jun 28 2013, 02:47 PM) 1...   Jun 29 2013, 12:47 AM
||- - Tashiro   QUOTE (apple @ Jun 28 2013, 08:47 PM) Ah ...   Jun 29 2013, 12:56 AM
||- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Tashiro @ Jun 28 2013, 07:56 PM) N...   Jun 29 2013, 01:01 AM
||- - apple   QUOTE (Tashiro @ Jun 28 2013, 07:56 PM) S...   Jun 29 2013, 01:09 AM
||- - Daedelus   QUOTE (apple @ Jun 28 2013, 06:09 PM) And...   Jun 29 2013, 01:42 AM
||- - Sendaz   QUOTE (apple @ Jun 28 2013, 09:09 PM) And...   Jun 29 2013, 01:50 AM
||- - Tashiro   QUOTE (apple @ Jun 28 2013, 08:09 PM) And...   Jun 29 2013, 03:06 AM
|- - hermit   QUOTE (Mäx @ Jun 28 2013, 09:37 PM) Video...   Jun 28 2013, 07:48 PM
|- - Medicineman   QUOTE (Mäx @ Jun 28 2013, 02:37 PM) Video...   Jun 29 2013, 06:12 AM
- - cndblank   These are good writers. Almost everything I'v...   Jun 28 2013, 08:01 PM
- - hermit   QUOTE Part of it was too hard a push from on high ...   Jun 28 2013, 08:17 PM
- - Stahlseele   Makes one wonder why a focus does not have to be o...   Jun 28 2013, 08:22 PM
- - hermit   Because then, a mage would have to be able to cast...   Jun 28 2013, 08:31 PM
|- - Stahlseele   QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 28 2013, 10:31 PM) Be...   Jun 28 2013, 08:33 PM
- - Sendaz   All focuses will now be WizFi capable allowing a s...   Jun 28 2013, 08:36 PM
|- - Stahlseele   QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jun 28 2013, 10:36 PM) Al...   Jun 28 2013, 08:38 PM
|- - nezumi   QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jun 28 2013, 03:36 PM) Al...   Jun 28 2013, 10:44 PM
|- - Cochise   QUOTE (nezumi @ Jun 29 2013, 12:44 AM) Sh...   Jun 28 2013, 10:48 PM
- - Fatum   As many have stated before, I have no problems wit...   Jun 28 2013, 08:50 PM
|- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Fatum @ Jun 28 2013, 03:50 PM) Hav...   Jun 28 2013, 10:00 PM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (Tashiro @ Jun 29 2013, 02:00 AM) O...   Jun 28 2013, 10:16 PM
|- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Fatum @ Jun 28 2013, 06:16 PM) Nop...   Jun 28 2013, 11:28 PM
|- - Novocrane   QUOTE (Fatum @ Jun 29 2013, 08:16 AM) Nop...   Jun 29 2013, 01:49 AM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (Novocrane @ Jun 29 2013, 05:49 AM)...   Jun 29 2013, 02:35 AM
|- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Fatum @ Jun 28 2013, 09:35 PM) No,...   Jun 29 2013, 03:09 AM
- - Cochise   Well, I guess I have to thank you Devon ... for pr...   Jun 28 2013, 10:14 PM
- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (Neurosis @ Jun 28 2013, 12:41 PM) ...   Jun 28 2013, 10:55 PM
|- - RHat   QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jun 28 2013, 03:55 PM)...   Jun 28 2013, 10:58 PM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (RHat @ Jun 29 2013, 02:58 AM) The ...   Jun 28 2013, 11:08 PM
- - KarmaInferno   Like folks have said, it's not the idea, it...   Jun 28 2013, 10:58 PM
- - Draco18s   By the way, just as the phrase "Hack CCTV...   Jun 28 2013, 10:59 PM
- - Draco18s   I think the big BIG BIG problem with this whole ma...   Jun 28 2013, 11:05 PM
|- - DWC   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 28 2013, 06:05 PM) ...   Jun 29 2013, 03:02 AM
- - X-Kalibur   I really do like the idea of deckers having a purp...   Jun 28 2013, 11:09 PM
|- - Stahlseele   QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Jun 29 2013, 01:0...   Jun 28 2013, 11:18 PM
|- - Cochise   QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Jun 29 2013, 01:0...   Jun 28 2013, 11:22 PM
|- - Sendaz   QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Jun 28 2013, 07:0...   Jun 29 2013, 01:39 AM
|- - X-Kalibur   QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jun 28 2013, 06:39 PM) If...   Jun 29 2013, 02:43 AM
- - apple   Is that really a fair poll? 3x "awesome...   Jun 29 2013, 12:38 AM
- - Moirdryd   GitS is totally cyberpunk But LotR is totally Fant...   Jun 29 2013, 12:50 AM
|- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Moirdryd @ Jun 28 2013, 08:50 PM) ...   Jun 29 2013, 12:59 AM
- - ShadowDragon8685   Appeal to Awesomeness is not a valid debate strate...   Jun 29 2013, 12:55 AM
- - Shortstraw   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 29 2013, 04:29 AM) ...   Jun 29 2013, 01:43 AM
- - KarmaInferno   Where did the idea come from that the supercompute...   Jun 29 2013, 02:55 AM
- - Fatum   DnD5 already allows magic and dragons and elves an...   Jun 29 2013, 04:56 AM
|- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Fatum @ Jun 28 2013, 11:56 PM) DnD...   Jun 29 2013, 12:34 PM
- - Shortstraw   Hey that baton has to extend and then retract agai...   Jun 29 2013, 05:08 AM
- - binarywraith   Man, if I ever needed more reason to be concerned ...   Jun 29 2013, 05:46 AM
- - RHat   QUOTE (apple @ Jun 28 2013, 06:09 PM) And...   Jun 29 2013, 06:34 AM
|- - apple   QUOTE (RHat @ Jun 29 2013, 01:34 AM) wire...   Jun 29 2013, 11:30 AM
- - Shinxy   To anyone complaining that cyberware being hackabl...   Jun 29 2013, 06:54 AM
|- - EKBT81   Or you know, I'll just continue with my 80s-re...   Jun 29 2013, 07:15 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE You're aware that all your communication...   Jun 29 2013, 07:39 AM
|- - Tashiro   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 29 2013, 02:39 AM) You...   Jun 29 2013, 12:38 PM
- - Irion   First I should read more closely before I take par...   Jun 29 2013, 09:03 AM
|- - ShadowDragon8685   QUOTE (Irion @ Jun 29 2013, 05:03 AM) So ...   Jun 29 2013, 09:05 AM
- - Glyph   I think one of the flaws in the metaplot is that s...   Jun 29 2013, 09:33 AM
- - Elfenlied   Well, there needs to be some actual, tangible ince...   Jun 29 2013, 09:33 AM
- - RHat   I remember reading something about the RE/WR wirel...   Jun 29 2013, 09:43 AM
- - Moirdryd   I've never understood the problems people seem...   Jun 29 2013, 10:32 AM
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