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> Do mages have it too easy?, They get new spells awfully quickly...
Do mages learn/research spells too quickly?
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Kurukami
post Aug 25 2003, 05:58 AM
Post #1


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In one of the shadowrunning games I've been in, mages were effectively the be-all and end-all of ass-kickers. Fast because of certain house rules effectively granting them magically wired reflexes, heavily armored unless you threw absolutely disgusting amounts of firepower at them, and with enough mana to roast legions of samurai and assassins with barely the blink of an eye. Hell, one guy had the equivalent of a Citymaster-style combat vehicle where he put a ritual circle in the back. Apparently, he once researched a new spell there on a drive back from a run in the Salish-Sidhe. Research time? Oh, four or five hours.

I, on the other hand, focus mainly on decker characters. The rules in Matrix are pretty straightforward -- it takes you a damned long time to code out new programs, just as it should be. Otherwise, advancement comes far too quickly -- though the MPCP limits the extent to which that might be possible.

I just find myself wishing that the scales didn't seem so definitively tipped in the direction of mages being uber. Has anyone implemented house rules of some kind that made things a bit more, well, equal?

(By the way? The aforementioned mage was at some disgusting level of initiation. 11 or 12 or something like that. Of course, this was mainly because the GM allowed the spending of cash to gain Karma...)
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Posts in this topic
- Kurukami   Do mages have it too easy?   Aug 25 2003, 05:58 AM
- - Sphynx   We came across a similar topic some time back in o...   Aug 25 2003, 06:08 AM
- - Herald of Verjigorm   By the books, mages are no more "uber" t...   Aug 25 2003, 06:08 AM
- - The White Dwarf   Yea, and thats just learning. If you want to desi...   Aug 25 2003, 06:18 AM
- - hobgoblin   iwould lvoe to hear more about that houserule that...   Aug 25 2003, 07:03 AM
- - Matrix Monkey   House rule? since when is quickening increase refl...   Aug 25 2003, 08:26 AM
- - Lilt   Mages are extremely powerful, perhaps too powerful...   Aug 25 2003, 12:36 PM
- - TheScamp   QUOTE Mages are extremely powerful, perhaps too po...   Aug 25 2003, 01:13 PM
- - Ancient History   Considering the karma costs (mages have up to seve...   Aug 25 2003, 01:21 PM
- - Hunter   Did you forget about that fact that you have to ro...   Aug 25 2003, 01:23 PM
- - Hot Wheels   A good role player and a good GM can keep mages in...   Aug 25 2003, 02:57 PM
- - Hunter   As least you're not a moogle.   Aug 25 2003, 03:51 PM
- - Zippo   QUOTE (TheScamp)QUOTE Mages are extremely powerful...   Aug 25 2003, 04:11 PM
- - Person 404   QUOTE A mage with increased reaction and reflexes ...   Aug 25 2003, 05:09 PM
- - Hero   >Zippo There where a lot of sustained duration...   Aug 25 2003, 05:10 PM
- - ShadowGhost   Inivisble mages are easy to take out.... Ultrasoun...   Aug 25 2003, 05:35 PM
- - Sphynx   Just an FYI on the UltraSound, you still have to b...   Aug 25 2003, 06:27 PM
- - Fortune   QUOTE (Sphynx @ Aug 25 2003, 02:27 PM) As for...   Aug 25 2003, 06:45 PM
- - Kurukami   QUOTE (Matrix Monkey) House rule? since when is qu...   Aug 25 2003, 06:48 PM
- - Clipwing   QUOTE (Sphynx) Just an FYI on the UltraSound, you ...   Aug 25 2003, 06:52 PM
- - Sphynx   I've had great success with it, but that could...   Aug 25 2003, 07:08 PM
- - Zippo   QUOTE I'd be interested to see this. A mage wh...   Aug 25 2003, 07:21 PM
- - ShadowGhost   QUOTE (Zippo) QUOTE Lucky rolls isn't an issu...   Aug 25 2003, 07:34 PM
- - Bölverk   QUOTE (Kurukami)Basically, I'm just fed up wit...   Aug 25 2003, 07:43 PM
- - TheScamp   QUOTE Not quite. Yes quite. You focus far too much...   Aug 25 2003, 07:49 PM
- - Talia Invierno   Uhm - I don't think initiation-based increases...   Aug 25 2003, 07:53 PM
- - Clipwing   QUOTE (Sphynx) I have a Stealth of 5, and almost a...   Aug 25 2003, 09:18 PM
- - hobgoblin   hmm, quickend or sustaind by foci increased reflex...   Aug 25 2003, 10:09 PM
- - Sunday_Gamer   It becomes apparent that the relative threat level...   Aug 25 2003, 11:06 PM
- - Zippo   QUOTE (TheScamp)Yes quite. You focus far too much ...   Aug 25 2003, 11:09 PM
- - Lilt   It takes a mage to tackle a mage. That is what mak...   Aug 25 2003, 11:19 PM
- - hobgoblin   toss in a cyberzombei, that mana hazeing helps won...   Aug 25 2003, 11:31 PM
- - Herald of Verjigorm   A cyberzombie hosting FAB3. Cripples any mage who...   Aug 25 2003, 11:39 PM
- - sapphire_wyvern   QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm @ Aug 25 2003, 11:...   Aug 25 2003, 11:58 PM
- - Herald of Verjigorm   Read the section on FAB3 on cyberzombies. It is i...   Aug 26 2003, 12:17 AM
- - sapphire_wyvern   QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm @ Aug 26 2003, 12:...   Aug 26 2003, 01:07 AM
- - Glyph   Kurukami: I don't think the spell research ru...   Aug 26 2003, 01:19 AM
- - Herald of Verjigorm   On MitS page 90. I was unable to find a reference...   Aug 26 2003, 02:44 AM
- - OurTeam   The initiate 11 or 12 magician who is prepared and...   Aug 26 2003, 03:06 AM
- - Kurukami   QUOTE (Glyph) Kurukami: I don't think the spe...   Aug 26 2003, 04:13 AM
- - Reth   As Ourteam rightly says cover and visibility modif...   Aug 26 2003, 04:16 AM
- - hobgoblin   a dual-natured sprite sun shaman? i would get out ...   Aug 26 2003, 10:42 AM
- - The White Dwarf   Whatever, a sam can be just as viable as a mage, a...   Aug 26 2003, 11:37 AM
- - Cain   Truth of the matter is, it appears that the charac...   Aug 26 2003, 05:41 PM
- - Talia Invierno   First, apologies to Bölverk: it seems I misunderst...   Aug 26 2003, 06:32 PM
- - TheScamp   QUOTE Game mechanics was what was originally said ...   Aug 26 2003, 09:36 PM
- - Zippo   QUOTE (TheScamp)How you choose to roleplay your ch...   Aug 27 2003, 02:08 AM
- - TheScamp   That's silly; it's like complaining that t...   Aug 27 2003, 05:57 PM
- - toturi   The part of researching spells being too fast or b...   Aug 30 2003, 04:15 AM
- - Curugul   QUOTE   Mages can never be as fast or deadly ...   Aug 30 2003, 11:59 PM
- - Talondel   Yeah. It's silly that magic should be able to...   Aug 31 2003, 05:15 PM
- - Curugul   QUOTE Yeah. It's silly that magic should be a...   Aug 31 2003, 06:29 PM
- - Talia Invierno   As an initial premise, I'll suggest that magic...   Aug 31 2003, 07:04 PM
- - hobgoblin   never forget that magicans are maybe 1% of the ent...   Aug 31 2003, 07:23 PM
- - Talondel   QUOTE (Curugul) You sir, are an idiot. There is ...   Aug 31 2003, 08:26 PM
- - Curugul   Buy three sustaining foci. Sustain Improved Invi...   Aug 31 2003, 09:00 PM
- - Fortune   QUOTE (Curugul) Buy three sustaining foci. Susta...   Aug 31 2003, 09:08 PM
- - Curugul   QUOTE You do know the rules for Focus Addiction, ...   Sep 1 2003, 02:19 AM
- - Fortune   QUOTE (Curugul) Yes, do you? Yes I do! I a...   Sep 1 2003, 02:39 AM
- - Reth   Actually dealing with invisiblity isn't all th...   Sep 1 2003, 05:50 AM
- - Sphynx   I disagree there Reth, about limiting the number o...   Sep 1 2003, 06:53 AM
- - Glyph   QUOTE (Curugul)Buy three sustaining foci.  S...   Sep 1 2003, 07:36 AM
- - Curugul   I wrote a really long reply, but I deleted it beca...   Sep 1 2003, 06:21 PM
- - FlakJacket   QUOTE (Curugul)Is it worth having a Sam around for...   Sep 1 2003, 06:45 PM
- - Frag-o Delux   You keep saying make everything even, the Mage wil...   Sep 1 2003, 06:58 PM
- - Curugul   QUOTE Although if the opposition is just walking ...   Sep 1 2003, 06:59 PM
- - hobgoblin   forced? no, but you can be dam sure that whatever ...   Sep 1 2003, 08:37 PM
- - Sunday_Gamer   There a whole lot of crack flying around this thre...   Sep 2 2003, 01:07 AM
- - Reth   Curugul: There is something wrong with the way you...   Sep 2 2003, 05:05 AM
- - TheScamp   Two words. Astral signature.   Sep 2 2003, 05:55 AM
- - Zazen   QUOTE (Curugul) Right. So magic is balanced becau...   Sep 2 2003, 06:30 AM
- - Abrojus   Well although the thread title refers to mages...   Sep 2 2003, 07:09 AM
- - Curugul   QUOTE From what i have been reading and thinking,...   Sep 2 2003, 05:23 PM
- - Talia Invierno   Direct limiting factors to magician spell strength...   Sep 2 2003, 07:28 PM
- - Cain   Try this comparison, then. Let's take an info...   Sep 2 2003, 07:57 PM
- - Curugul   QUOTE Karma sinks * Sorcery skill * Magic Theory ...   Sep 2 2003, 07:59 PM
- - Talia Invierno   QUOTE Karma sinks [etc.] - Talia Invierno Right, ...   Sep 2 2003, 08:27 PM
- - Sphynx   Point remains that spells are god awful cheap. Yo...   Sep 2 2003, 08:57 PM
- - Siege   I would also point out that a samurai can be doing...   Sep 2 2003, 09:12 PM
- - Reth   Well Curugul i don't know if it can be said to...   Sep 2 2003, 11:36 PM
- - Cain   QUOTE Cain, I'd add to yours that surveillance...   Sep 3 2003, 03:24 AM
- - Sphynx   QUOTE (Talia Invierno) Should a magician regularly...   Sep 3 2003, 07:02 AM
- - Abrojus   Maybe it was better to address each point as a sep...   Sep 3 2003, 07:28 AM
- - The White Dwarf   Man this sounds awfully close to star wars... ...   Sep 3 2003, 07:54 AM
- - Greyfoxx   Ive been reading through most of the threads regar...   Sep 3 2003, 10:25 AM
- - Greyfoxx   My point being, that GM's are responsible for ...   Sep 3 2003, 12:03 PM
- - Sphynx   QUOTE (Greyfoxx @ Sep 3 2003, 12:25 PM) Now i...   Sep 3 2003, 12:24 PM
- - hobgoblin   to ritualy cast a spell you either need a shamans ...   Sep 3 2003, 12:38 PM
- - Greyfoxx   No, the face wont survive. but that's not what...   Sep 3 2003, 12:40 PM
- - Sphynx   Why do you keep pulling the discussion off track? ...   Sep 3 2003, 12:51 PM
- - Greyfoxx   I also dont believe that mages have it to easy. In...   Sep 3 2003, 12:56 PM
- - TheScamp   QUOTE Face spends -either- those 4 karma to learn ...   Sep 3 2003, 12:58 PM
- - Greyfoxx   Also, the idea that mages are too powerful in that...   Sep 3 2003, 01:08 PM
- - Greyfoxx   Hey sphynx, i apologize if i got a bit carried awa...   Sep 3 2003, 01:13 PM
- - Sphynx   No probs, I don't take offense to good discuss...   Sep 3 2003, 01:24 PM
- - Zazen   QUOTE (Sphynx) I mean seriously, I can learn 15 Fo...   Sep 3 2003, 02:27 PM
- - Darkest Angel   I've never felt mages had it too easy, quite t...   Sep 3 2003, 03:41 PM
- - Glyph   I don't find the cost and time of learning new...   Sep 3 2003, 06:20 PM
- - Sphynx   What's hard about 12 6's? My character ha...   Sep 3 2003, 07:10 PM
- - Curugul   QUOTE Mages are Karma sinks , and raising the co...   Sep 3 2003, 08:53 PM
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