Feb 19 2005, 06:44 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 11-September 04 From: French Runner Member No.: 6,652 |
Am I the only one here thinking that automatic weapons are way too powerful when compared to semi-automatic guns ?
I hope not... Anyway, let me explain my point (I apologize in advance for my English skills): if you shoot some Humanis skinhead wearing a Lined coat with a single bullet from your trusty AK97, he gets to roll 4s (8 - Ballistic Armor Rating of 4) to soak the damage... Strangely enough, if I fire 6 slugs, our Humanis goon (not that I'm pitying him though...) must get 10s on his Body test... How come? All those 6 bullets don't punch through the same hole in the kevlar lining, right? Some people will argue that 6 bullets transmit much more kinetic energy and so on...which explains the increase in Power. Let's consider another example : let's say our skinhead gets shot by two M.O.M activists firing one 3-round burst each (that is the same number of bullets as in my previous example) : suddenly , the Body Test is TN 7 instead of 10 for the very same number of bullets... How come armor can have such a varying degree of efficiency? After all, each bullet has to punch through the same thickness of kevlar/ceramic plates , doesn't it? My point is : the full-auto/burst fire rules suck ! Not very logical and way too deadly in my humble opinion... Here is my proposition, partly inspired by the Searching Fire rule in the Cannon Companion: the philosophy is autofire increases the chances you hit the target. So I suggest that you get a bonus of 1 Die for every bullet fired in a burst (long or short) with a maximum equal to your Base Skill. Damage Level would go up but NOT the Power of the attack (exactly the opposite of the Searching Fire rule) You could even go a little bit further by considering that on a burst, the number of bullets that actually hit the target depends on your successes: 1 bullet hits for each success on your Combat roll , which then allows you to come up with the actual Damage Level. Let's take an example: SunderStone (strength 10, Assault Rifle 5, Combat Pool 6), Troll street samuraļ and card-wielding MOM activist , decides to clarify his political ideas by firing a 6-round burst with his good old AK (recoil comp 4, smartlinked) on a Brackhaven fanboy (Body 5) in Reinforced Jacket (5/3) insulting him from across the street in Redmond at 2 am (20 m, short range, partial light) TN: 5 SunderStone chooses to roll 15 dice (skill+pool+bonus from autofire ) and can expect to get some 5 successes. The damage level is 8S (if you use the optional rule of taking the actual number of slugs hitting the target to calculate Damage Level) The Humanis goon can dodge (TN 6) with let's say 4 pool dice and get maybe one success and then make a Body test TN 3 (8 - 5) with 7 dice (5 from Body, 2 remaining pool dice) , getting 4 successes. End result: the norm falls on the sidewalk screaming with a Serious Wound...very different from the usual inescapable Deadly Wound.... The point here is that in the standard rule an overstressed NRA-contributing-sarariman with an AK can fire a 14D long burst. With a Dodge TN of 6, even a seasoned runner can get wasted. since the Body test would have an average TN of 8 (considering 6 Ballistic pts)... My house rule tries to make a big difference between a professional and an amateur (the difference being the number of successes hence the number of bullets actually hitting the target and thus the Damage Level) and tries to reevaluate the effectiveness of armor against burst fire... As a side effect, some weapons like the Ares Crusader or the Beretta 200ST would be reevaluated too, their autofire capacity giving an alternative choice to consider (lesser Power than a heavy handgun, but bonus dice : nice trade-off for average shooters) What's your opinion on this heresy? |
|
|
|
Ombre Bursts and Full-Autofire Feb 19 2005, 06:44 PM
Kanada Ten So, you just use the Searching Fire rules in place... Feb 19 2005, 06:47 PM
Ombre Let's say the philosphy of it (but not the let... Feb 19 2005, 06:50 PM
BitBasher Remember also, taking damage does *not* mean the b... Feb 19 2005, 07:34 PM
Lindt It just boils down to how lucky the skinhead is. ... Feb 19 2005, 07:39 PM
Raife Keep in mind that a firefight like this SHOULD be ... Feb 19 2005, 08:06 PM
James McMurray 2 and 4 don't apply to shadowrun. There is no ... Feb 19 2005, 08:22 PM
Dawnshadow Shoot better AND more, AND more often. Feb 19 2005, 08:40 PM
BitBasher QUOTE (James McMurray) There is no bonus for being... Feb 19 2005, 08:46 PM
James McMurray What book is that from? Its not in the main book (... Feb 19 2005, 09:06 PM
hahnsoo A quick search through the BBB (god, I love the ne... Feb 19 2005, 09:16 PM
Raife Hmm, I thought there was a +2 modifier to fire at ... Feb 19 2005, 10:11 PM
hyzmarca You could increase the effectivness of multiple sh... Feb 19 2005, 11:41 PM
BitBasher I would have bet vital parts of my anatomy that wa... Feb 20 2005, 09:10 AM
mfb i've seen it before as well. can't find it... Feb 20 2005, 09:27 AM
Xirces QUOTE (hyzmarca) You could increase the effectivne... Feb 20 2005, 11:30 AM
Ombre Actually my point was to find an alternative to th... Feb 20 2005, 01:29 PM
Austere Emancipator QUOTE (Ombre)Let's take a simple example: a bu... Feb 20 2005, 01:52 PM
Kanada Ten QUOTE However, I don't really have a problem w... Feb 20 2005, 04:45 PM
Austere Emancipator All fully automatic fire in an action is divided e... Feb 20 2005, 04:57 PM
LynGrey Ok i rather be shot with one bullet than a 3 shot ... Feb 20 2005, 06:55 PM
Fortune QUOTE if you don't like the system.. then eit... Feb 20 2005, 07:04 PM
TeOdio I agree w/ the house rule thing, but I'd like ... Feb 21 2005, 06:29 AM
Sandoval Smith My opinion is that I guess it's not so bad of ... Feb 21 2005, 07:00 AM
Smiley QUOTE (Ombre @ Feb 19 2005, 02:44 PM) Am I th... Feb 21 2005, 08:00 AM
Arethusa QUOTE (Smiley)Of course they're going to be mo... Feb 21 2005, 08:39 AM
Ombre Well...guess I'm the only one dissatisfied ... Feb 21 2005, 10:37 AM
TheOneRonin Ombre, you aren't the only one who is dissatis... Feb 21 2005, 03:32 PM
Austere Emancipator In the 3rd video, when the guy is firing the Shrik... Feb 21 2005, 03:50 PM
TheOneRonin You make a good point about the Shrike gunner AE, ... Feb 21 2005, 03:58 PM
James McMurray QUOTE That is by FAR a more model approach to fire... Feb 21 2005, 04:31 PM
GrinderTheTroll So most folks agree that when you get into a firef... Feb 21 2005, 06:44 PM
TheOneRonin I'll agree that Shadorun is an "escape... Feb 21 2005, 07:18 PM
GrinderTheTroll QUOTE (TheOneRonin) I'll agree that Shadorun i... Feb 21 2005, 07:31 PM
Smiley QUOTE (Arethusa) QUOTE (Smiley)Of course they... Feb 21 2005, 08:16 PM
Arethusa Even that's not really a guarantee, though. S... Feb 21 2005, 08:29 PM
TheOneRonin Okay...here's a primer on those full auto rule... Feb 21 2005, 08:32 PM
TheOneRonin QUOTE (Arethusa) Even that's not really a guar... Feb 21 2005, 08:36 PM
James McMurray Why don't the people who need so much more rea... Feb 22 2005, 12:16 AM
Raygun QUOTE (James McMurray)Why don't the people who... Feb 22 2005, 12:45 AM
Crusher Bob Hmm...
Let me run a few samples (assuming much mo... Feb 22 2005, 06:33 AM
Ombre Seems I wasn't clear again...
Actuallythe whol... Feb 22 2005, 01:27 PM
TheOneRonin Crusher Bob:
Thanks for the samples. I wasn... Feb 22 2005, 03:52 PM
BitBasher TheOneRonin You just described the Searching Fire ... Feb 22 2005, 04:41 PM
mmu1 QUOTE (TheOneRonin) And for those who think it... Feb 22 2005, 05:07 PM
TheOneRonin QUOTE (mmu1)QUOTE (TheOneRonin @ Feb 21 2005,... Feb 22 2005, 05:37 PM
hahnsoo QUOTE (TheOneRonin) Now as for Seaching fire...I h... Feb 22 2005, 05:48 PM
mfb QUOTE (shadowland house rules)Rather than making a... Feb 22 2005, 06:22 PM
shadow_scholar QUOTE (Ombre) Seems I wasn't clear again...
Ac... Feb 22 2005, 06:26 PM
BitBasher Two things:
1) a body of 15 isn't all that im... Feb 22 2005, 06:39 PM
Dawnshadow QUOTE (BitBasher @ Feb 22 2005, 01:39 PM) 1) ... Feb 22 2005, 06:48 PM
mmu1 QUOTE (TheOneRonin @ Feb 22 2005, 12:37 PM) A... Feb 22 2005, 06:50 PM
Herald of Verjigorm QUOTE (Dawnshadow) 20 body. (Can ony be done with ... Feb 22 2005, 06:54 PM
BitBasher QUOTE Edit: Flip side -- Why isn't body 15 imp... Feb 22 2005, 07:01 PM
Dawnshadow QUOTE (BitBasher) 15 body isn't impressive bec... Feb 22 2005, 07:15 PM
shadow_scholar a 15 body isn't impressive? It's two and ... Feb 22 2005, 07:59 PM
hahnsoo Just a note that dermal plating and bone lacing ha... Feb 22 2005, 08:05 PM
Dawnshadow Ah. I don't have M&M. How much are the pen... Feb 22 2005, 08:09 PM
hahnsoo 2 Cyberlimbs/torso: No change
3 Cyberlimbs/torso: ... Feb 22 2005, 08:11 PM
Fortune QUOTE (shadow_scholar) a 15 body isn't impress... Feb 22 2005, 08:31 PM
BitBasher QUOTE (Fortune) QUOTE (shadow_scholar @ Feb 2... Feb 22 2005, 08:34 PM
Austere Emancipator In other words, you need to drop the Cyberarms. No... Feb 22 2005, 08:39 PM
RunnerPaul QUOTE (BitBasher @ Feb 22 2005, 01:39 PM) 2) ... Feb 23 2005, 01:47 AM
mfb when you have MBW-4, you won't have to dodge b... Feb 23 2005, 01:51 AM
kevyn668 Edit: What's the question again? Feb 23 2005, 02:52 AM
RunnerPaul Woah. Feb 23 2005, 02:53 AM
Wireknight For people suggesting the highest possibly Body on... Feb 23 2005, 03:05 AM
kevyn668 To quote RunnerPaul: "Woah." Feb 23 2005, 03:09 AM
hahnsoo Dermal Sheathing removes the natural dermal deposi... Feb 23 2005, 03:16 AM
RunnerPaul QUOTE (Wireknight)
Oh, and you could actually do ... Feb 23 2005, 03:18 AM
mfb i don't see that in the book, hahnsoo. Feb 23 2005, 03:21 AM
hahnsoo QUOTE (mfb @ Feb 22 2005, 10:21 PM) i don... Feb 23 2005, 03:24 AM
mfb note that dermal sheathing has regenerative proper... Feb 23 2005, 03:33 AM
Endgame50 I would go this route:
Ork (9 body base, 6 quickn... Feb 23 2005, 05:58 AM
Austere Emancipator Darn. SURGE and Genetech. I'll always be 2 poi... Feb 23 2005, 10:29 AM
Critias Staying SoTA's a bitch. Feb 23 2005, 10:34 AM
Johnson I have found that SOTA is used quite a bit, its a ... Feb 24 2005, 06:54 AM
Endgame50 I highly recommend going out and getting them if a... Feb 24 2005, 07:10 AM
Johnson It have had SOTA 63 on order for the last 4 months... Feb 24 2005, 07:16 AM
Crusher Bob Yay for SR PDFs Feb 24 2005, 07:20 AM
Johnson PDF's. Yes I agree but I rather like the feel ... Feb 24 2005, 07:35 AM
Link mfb (if the shadowland rules you quoted are yours)... Feb 24 2005, 03:07 PM
BitBasher QUOTE (Johnson) PDF's. Yes I agree but I rathe... Feb 24 2005, 04:59 PM
mfb partly for game balance, partly for realism. for g... Feb 24 2005, 05:48 PM
Smiley Yeah, but with only one success, it's that muc... Feb 24 2005, 05:55 PM
mfb that one success gives your target +2 TN to dodge,... Feb 24 2005, 06:00 PM
Smiley But all the target needs is 1 six and he avoids it... Feb 24 2005, 07:13 PM
mfb no, he needs two sixes. you have to beat the attac... Feb 24 2005, 08:00 PM
Link After rereading the SL rules it occurred to me tha... Feb 25 2005, 12:44 AM
Rolemodel QUOTE (BitBasher) 1) a body of 15 isn't all th... Mar 1 2005, 11:56 AM
BitBasher QUOTE (Rolemodel) QUOTE (BitBasher @ Feb 22 2... Mar 1 2005, 04:48 PM
Rolemodel Of course. High armor plays it's part, natura... Mar 4 2005, 11:18 AM
Dawnshadow QUOTE (BitBasher) QUOTE (Rolemodel @ Mar 1 20... Mar 4 2005, 02:43 PM
BitBasher I didn't assume anything means naked, I was ju... Mar 4 2005, 06:29 PM
mfb QUOTE (Link)I tend to think one could adjust the d... Mar 5 2005, 02:56 AM
Dawnshadow QUOTE (BitBasher) I didn't assume anything mea... Mar 5 2005, 04:02 AM
Arethusa Dawn, you're nitpicking, and repeatedly beatin... Mar 5 2005, 04:44 AM
Dawnshadow QUOTE (Arethusa) Dawn, you're nitpicking, and ... Mar 5 2005, 04:55 AM
Arethusa It's not a valid form of debate when you'r... Mar 5 2005, 04:59 AM
hahnsoo *hands out some NERPS* Everyone feel better now? Mar 5 2005, 05:09 AM![]() ![]() |
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 21st January 2026 - 03:00 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.