Shadowrun MMO announced, who saw THAT coming?! Options

[CanRay]

i'm a pessimist at whatever is left of my blackened heart . .

You still have that thing? I thought it would have festered away by now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Grinder]

i'm a pessimist at whatever is left of my blackened heart . .

you always strike me as to be confused and with a short attention span. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Stahlseele]

You still have that thing? I thought it would have festered away by now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

*shrugs* it HAS to be somewhere i think . . probably in the possession of some woman . .

you always strike me as to be confused and with a short attention span. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

THAT is HIGHLY dependent on circumstances <.<

[primetide]

Coming back to the post's original topic...
Let me quickly say hello from the developers mentioned in this post,
We are not doing a full fledged client based MMO, I am afraid, as this would be beyond our meagre means and also almost all big client based futuristic RPGs have failed commercially, so it is a BIG risk. So it means our game will not be huge, shiny and it will not aim to build the 6th world brick by brick for you to experience. That being said, if anyone has 60 to 70 million dollars lying around unused looking for an investment opportunity, we are happy to reconsider.

Instead we intend to focus on the more tactical parts of the game and we will do a browser based game with small team gameplay (either alone or with others), more in the tradition of Baldur's Gate crossed with Jagged Alliance - with more firepower. We will have a seperate AI server for the game to ensure challenging fights and enemy behaviour.

We have began to talk with Shadowrun writers regarding plots and missions and want to stay as close to the game's plot as possible and keep the essence of the setting very much in the foreground. Many of us have been fans for over a decade and we have made our fair share of runs, so we want to stay true to the game we love.

Now reality, being the nasty thing it is, may force us to make compromises due to limited budget or technological barriers, so we can't promise anything at that point and anyway, this is not the place for marketing blurbs.

What we do want is for the fans of Shadowrun to become part of our development effort - as a critical (but hopefully constructive) audience, as a group to exchange ideas with (knowing we cannot incorporate each one) and to keep us straight in aiming for what makes the game great.

And no, we do not think this is steampunk, that was a misquote from our text for the Deadlands Action RPG we also intend to do...

See you in the shadows...

[Blade]

Thanks for sharing with us primetide.
You got me at "Jagged Alliance". I'm looking forward to it!

[CanRay]

As long as their representative is willing to list to us group of malcontents, I'm happy.

But, yeah, they got me at "Jagged Alliance" as well.

And maybe this will be finally a way to game with folks that I've met here.

[Doc Chase]

As long as their representative is willing to list to us group of malcontents, I'm happy.

But, yeah, they got me at "Jagged Alliance" as well.

And maybe this will be finally a way to game with folks that I've met here.

Say what you want about the project, these guys know their audience. Mad props for that.

[CanRay]

Say what you want about the project, these guys know their audience. Mad props for that.

I don't know... He did make himself a target here on Dumpshock... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Doc Chase]

I don't know... He did make himself a target here on Dumpshock... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

that's...a frightening thought for a fan project.

Write mission proposals for the MMO.

[CanRay]

Fan Project hell. I want on the team now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Doc Chase]

Fan Project hell. I want on the team now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I want 60-70 million in disposable income to greenlight a full 6th World build. I don't care if it sells or not, I'd slap a server in my basement and give access to the Dumpshockers to play their hearts out.

[Stahlseele]

Coming back to the post's original topic...
Let me quickly say hello from the developers mentioned in this post,
We are not doing a full fledged client based MMO, I am afraid, as this would be beyond our meagre means and also almost all big client based futuristic RPGs have failed commercially, so it is a BIG risk. So it means our game will not be huge, shiny and it will not aim to build the 6th world brick by brick for you to experience. That being said, if anyone has 60 to 70 million dollars lying around unused looking for an investment opportunity, we are happy to reconsider.

Instead we intend to focus on the more tactical parts of the game and we will do a browser based game with small team gameplay (either alone or with others), more in the tradition of Baldur's Gate crossed with Jagged Alliance - with more firepower. We will have a seperate AI server for the game to ensure challenging fights and enemy behaviour.

We have began to talk with Shadowrun writers regarding plots and missions and want to stay as close to the game's plot as possible and keep the essence of the setting very much in the foreground. Many of us have been fans for over a decade and we have made our fair share of runs, so we want to stay true to the game we love.

Now reality, being the nasty thing it is, may force us to make compromises due to limited budget or technological barriers, so we can't promise anything at that point and anyway, this is not the place for marketing blurbs.

What we do want is for the fans of Shadowrun to become part of our development effort - as a critical (but hopefully constructive) audience, as a group to exchange ideas with (knowing we cannot incorporate each one) and to keep us straight in aiming for what makes the game great.

And no, we do not think this is steampunk, that was a misquote from our text for the Deadlands Action RPG we also intend to do...

See you in the shadows...

OK, THAT i can and actually DO respect . . One of the Guys doing the MW3015 Game did the same and came to us on the MWLL Boards and actually plays the Mod with us from time to time to get some idea of how MW should work and does work and to get some inspiration from the fanbase too . .

I don't know... He did make himself a target here on Dumpshock... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Much more important: Registered HERE not on the official boards *snickers*

Fan Project hell. I want on the team now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Go here:
http://www.cliffhanger-productions.com/con.../text/read/id/5

I want 60-70 million in disposable income to greenlight a full 6th World build. I don't care if it sells or not, I'd slap a server in my basement and give access to the Dumpshockers to play their hearts out.

Counterstrike started out like this too . . well, aside from the 60-70 million disposable income, obviously . . that came last i think ^^
And remember, there is the awakened MMO which is going to use the SR3 Rules for a kind of MMORPG style version i think . .
Come to think of it, wonder which version of the rules the Browser Game is going to use?

[hermit]

Coming back to the post's original topic...
Let me quickly say hello from the developers mentioned in this post,
We are not doing a full fledged client based MMO, I am afraid, as this would be beyond our meagre means and also almost all big client based futuristic RPGs have failed commercially, so it is a BIG risk. So it means our game will not be huge, shiny and it will not aim to build the 6th world brick by brick for you to experience. That being said, if anyone has 60 to 70 million dollars lying around unused looking for an investment opportunity, we are happy to reconsider.

Instead we intend to focus on the more tactical parts of the game and we will do a browser based game with small team gameplay (either alone or with others), more in the tradition of Baldur's Gate crossed with Jagged Alliance - with more firepower. We will have a seperate AI server for the game to ensure challenging fights and enemy behaviour.

We have began to talk with Shadowrun writers regarding plots and missions and want to stay as close to the game's plot as possible and keep the essence of the setting very much in the foreground. Many of us have been fans for over a decade and we have made our fair share of runs, so we want to stay true to the game we love.

Now reality, being the nasty thing it is, may force us to make compromises due to limited budget or technological barriers, so we can't promise anything at that point and anyway, this is not the place for marketing blurbs.

What we do want is for the fans of Shadowrun to become part of our development effort - as a critical (but hopefully constructive) audience, as a group to exchange ideas with (knowing we cannot incorporate each one) and to keep us straight in aiming for what makes the game great.

And no, we do not think this is steampunk, that was a misquote from our text for the Deadlands Action RPG we also intend to do...

See you in the shadows...

Thanks for sharing, and braving this ... lot here. Me included. Probably especially me.

That said ... I got questions.

1) you say you want to do a "game with small team gameplay (either alone or with others), more in the tradition of Baldur's Gate crossed with Jagged Alliance - with more firepower. ". This sounds a tad like that little sidegame for Dragonage, where you form a party and navigate dungeons to kill monsters (there's another game like this which reminded me a lot of the boardgame Descent, but I cannot remember it's name). Is that a workable assumption of what you have planned (so far as you can share/are willing to)? Also, for all I know, that Dragonage game is tied to facebook, do you plan in a similar vein? What with selectable party members if friends have a character and such things. I hear it's very popular idea in the gaming business ever since Zynga.

2) I realise this is a very, very early phase and possible quite the unfair question, but what kind of visuals can we expect?

3) Same with the gameplay, what can you share about ideas here, how do you want to incorporate missions? Like in Jagged alliance, where you have to secure/cleanse/investigate someplace and then make it out?

4) Now, this is really only half a nagging "why the hell another online game" question, but why not do a non-online game with a real story and such, in the vein of the old Genesis and Super Nintendo games (if you do not know them, give them a try, they're free for download someplaces)? I'm not judging (well, trying to), and a "the revenue from online games is far better and we don't have the ressources to fund a more traditional game" answer is okay too.

Also, good to know that Steampunk thing was a misqote. With the last Shadowrun computer game, people have grown .... cautious.

[CanRay]

Also, good to know that Steampunk thing was a misqote. With the last Shadowrun computer game, people have grown .... cautious.

"Rabidly insane with a tendency of going off half-cocked, fully-cocked, and double-action" would be the phrase that wasn't said there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[hermit]

I had chalk for dinner. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Hmm . .
Wonder when we'll hear first design ideas, if anything, about this.
Will it be like mafia wars(get erritory, get ressource, upgrade, get more territory, upgrade, lose it to somebody else), or something more in the direction of RPG?
Technically, SR is real time, and only combat is turn based . . this will be, i think, a bit harder to get translated into a browser game . .

[hermit]

Mafia Wars ........ will it force you to spam everybody you know on Facebook, then? Also, Zynga games are famous for both unrelaibility AND shallow and bad gameplay. I sure hope that's not their direction.

I could imagine gameplay like in the SNES game without a story, with shadowrunners moving about in a "lounge" area for interaction and the inevitable versus stuff, and runs/missions where you basically go somewhere and shoot everything, and where you hire a team for. Maybe also a hideout section where you can set up your own little shadowrunner base, furnish it et cetara, so they get revenue, Zynga-like.

But hey, let's hear them out.

[Stahlseele]

Of course we'll hear them out.
We can allways bitch later on *snickers* ^^

[primetide]

Thanks for sharing, and braving this ... lot here. Me included. Probably especially me.

...[snip]
1) you say you want to do a "game with small team gameplay (either alone or with others), more in the tradition of Baldur's Gate crossed with Jagged Alliance - with more firepower. ". This sounds a tad like that little sidegame for Dragonage, [snip] Is that a workable assumption of what you have planned [snip]I hear it's very popular idea in the gaming business ever since Zynga.

We actually want to have a more tactical approach - since we are currently doing a Jagged Alliance Online game, we thought Shadowrun could be a natural extension. We plan on social mechanics to allow you to play with and support friends directly and indirectly, but by and large it will be a coregamer kind of game. If we had the kind of money Bioware has, we could also do this as a side project for fun, but for now, we look for deeper gameplay to create more engagement on the player's side.

2) I realise this is a very, very early phase and possible quite the unfair question, but what kind of visuals can we expect?

We are using Unity for a sort of isometric/perspective 3D look. If you look at screenshots of or current Jagged Alliance project, add a bit of glamour and a slightly closer camera you should get a good idea.

3) Same with the gameplay, what can you share about ideas here, how do you want to incorporate missions? Like in Jagged alliance, where you have to secure/cleanse/investigate someplace and then make it out?

Jep, close to that, but much more "stealth" missions, where you must not raise alarms, because the place will be crawling with rent-a-cops quickly. Also AR will play a major role as will hacking. Missions will be instanced and gained from a mission hub/world map type of place.

4) Now, this is really only half a nagging "why the hell another online game" question, but why not do a non-online game with a real story and such, in the vein of the old Genesis and Super Nintendo games (if you do not know them, give them a try, they're free for download someplaces)? I'm not judging (well, trying to), and a "the revenue from online games is far better and we don't have the ressources to fund a more traditional game" answer is okay too.

pretty much what you said (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) - plus who says we don't want story?

Also, good to know that Steampunk thing was a misqote. With the last Shadowrun computer game, people have grown .... cautious.

Yeah, it is not going to be a shooter , that one’s for sure. By the way, I don't think it's terribly brave to appear here - it is just good sense to go where the most critical lot will be. If we can make it here, we can make it anywhere... *sings off key*
Honestly though, I think respect is usually build mutually, so if we want the fans to respect the game, we should respect the fans. And in marketing terms, you are the target audience, so we would do well to find out which game you would want to play - and I am not promising we can or will make the game you always wanted. But at least we will seriously try to do justice to the license.

[primetide]

Hmm . .
Wonder when we'll hear first design ideas, if anything, about this.
Will it be like mafia wars(get erritory, get ressource, upgrade, get more territory, upgrade, lose it to somebody else), or something more in the direction of RPG?
Technically, SR is real time, and only combat is turn based . . this will be, i think, a bit harder to get translated into a browser game . .

No, Mafia Wars is basically - for all its inherent cleverness and the healthy professional respect I have for a game plaid and paid for by milions - a "click button to move bar" game. We actually intend to do a 'real' game. Translating the turn based vs real time is actually quite easy: You move in real time as long as no combat happens, then we switch to turnbased.

But let me ask a question here then: Would you prefer a true turn based combat (every action costs Action Points or one can do two simple actions per turn etc.) or would you prefer a slow moving real time, where the turn based is "hidden" (like with Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights) and each action simply takes a certain time. This choice means tactics vs action. True turn based would allow much more options in combat like changing stance, reloads, cover etc. while real time makes for a more fluid, action oriented experience.

I could imagine gameplay like in the SNES game without a story, with shadowrunners moving about in a "lounge" area for interaction and the inevitable versus stuff, and runs/missions where you basically go somewhere and shoot everything, and where you hire a team for. Maybe also a hideout section where you can set up your own little shadowrunner base, furnish it et cetara, so they get revenue, Zynga-like.

Yes, runs will be instanced missions, but they will also be about sneaking, freeing a hostage or stealing a weapon prototype. We are looking at having a sort of homebase for runners, where they can modify weapons and equipment, create custom made software etc.
You can "rent" runners to add to your team for the run or play with other players live.
We may have some Mafia Wars style "legwork" jobs, where other players can support you asynchronously - just so you do have some short session gameplay as well, if you don't care for a longer session at that moment.

[Stahlseele]

We actually want to have a more tactical approach - since we are currently doing a Jagged Alliance Online game, we thought Shadowrun could be a natural extension. We plan on social mechanics to allow you to play with and support friends directly and indirectly, but by and large it will be a coregamer kind of game. If we had the kind of money Bioware has, we could also do this as a side project for fun, but for now, we look for deeper gameplay to create more engagement on the player's side.


We are using Unity for a sort of isometric/perspective 3D look. If you look at screenshots of or current Jagged Alliance project, add a bit of glamour and a slightly closer camera you should get a good idea.


Jep, close to that, but much more "stealth" missions, where you must not raise alarms, because the place will be crawling with rent-a-cops quickly. Also AR will play a major role as will hacking. Missions will be instanced and gained from a mission hub/world map type of place.


pretty much what you said (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) - plus who says we don't want story?


Yeah, it is not going to be a shooter , that one’s for sure. By the way, I don't think it's terribly brave to appear here - it is just good sense to go where the most critical lot will be. If we can make it here, we can make it anywhere... *sings off key*
Honestly though, I think respect is usually build mutually, so if we want the fans to respect the game, we should respect the fans. And in marketing terms, you are the target audience, so we would do well to find out which game you would want to play - and I am not promising we can or will make the game you always wanted. But at least we will seriously try to do justice to the license.

No, Mafia Wars is basically - for all its inherent cleverness and the healthy professional respect I have for a game plaid and paid for by milions - a "click button to move bar" game. We actually intend to do a 'real' game. Translating the turn based vs real time is actually quite easy: You move in real time as long as no combat happens, then we switch to turnbased.

But let me ask a question here then: Would you prefer a true turn based combat (every action costs Action Points or one can do two simple actions per turn etc.) or would you prefer a slow moving real time, where the turn based is "hidden" (like with Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights) and each action simply takes a certain time. This choice means tactics vs action. True turn based would allow much more options in combat like changing stance, reloads, cover etc. while real time makes for a more fluid, action oriented experience.



Yes, runs will be instanced missions, but they will also be about sneaking, freeing a hostage or stealing a weapon prototype. We are looking at having a sort of homebase for runners, where they can modify weapons and equipment, create custom made software etc.
You can "rent" runners to add to your team for the run or play with other players live.
We may have some Mafia Wars style "legwork" jobs, where other players can support you asynchronously - just so you do have some short session gameplay as well, if you don't care for a longer session at that moment.

Sounds good so far.
And dude, 3D/Isometric?
PLEASE do Action Points!
I LOVE Fallout and Fallout2!
This would make it like coming home ^^
Let us not dwell on Fallout Tactics . . but seeing how the Missions there were basically instanced stuff and you could recruit NPC's and change between more or less RealTime and TurnBased, maybe one should take a look at that one too . .

And if you think WE are the worst of the bunch . . Have you heard of a Man named Frank Trollman? < = That is his ACTUAL REAL LIFE NAME!
And he is, let us say, PASSIONATE about Shadowrun ^^

We are not even the MOST of the Shadowrun Fanbase in here. We are just the biggest Online Community and pretty Vocal about stuff we don't like.
One of the nice points about not being an officially sanctioned site/board. We can bitch as much as we want, and only the admins can make us shut up ^^

[CanRay]

Everything sounds good so far. You got my silence (Aside from smart ass comments. Nothing stops those.), but I do have one thing to say.

*sings off key*

GET YOUR OWN DAMN KEY TO SING IN, that one's mine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Stahlseele]

BTW, don't let us keep you here.
Do read the rest of the boards when you have time.
And chime in with comments to other stuff too, not just the game you are working on.
Of course, we are runners, so paydata is pretty much important to us, but you should have some fun with us too ^^

[hermit]

Honestly though, I think respect is usually build mutually, so if we want the fans to respect the game, we should respect the fans.

If only everyone making a game thought like this. ^_^ *does not look into any direction AT ALL*

plus who says we don't want story?

Fair enough, but engaging stories don't go very well with a multiplayer-oriented game ... though, if you would focus on a single-player playable game, add in saves somehow (though no idea if that's even possible with online games), you could do story-driven 'runs'. that's forfeiting the core market for browser games though, the hardcore casual gamers. It'd certainly be a risk. Not that I'd mind particularily if it results in a game that's playable without killing you by way of boredom after a few dozen turns of always the same crap.

Yes, runs will be instanced missions, but they will also be about sneaking, freeing a hostage or stealing a weapon prototype. We are looking at having a sort of homebase for runners, where they can modify weapons and equipment, create custom made software etc.
You can "rent" runners to add to your team for the run or play with other players live.
We may have some Mafia Wars style "legwork" jobs, where other players can support you asynchronously - just so you do have some short session gameplay as well, if you don't care for a longer session at that moment.

That sounds a lot more promising than the words "bowser based online game" would imply, at least. Having a look at your Jagged Alliance game, how will you handle PvP in your Shadowrun game? Mandatory, only in an arena? PvP is one of the components that annoy me most in online games. Also, what about character death? Shadowrun is pretty harsh there, since the world disallows magic for resurrection, timetravel and teleportation.

What about looks? You said you want to improve on those in JA2? That's good, because the looks there are rather surprisingly uncrappy for a browser-based game (in case the images under "screen shots" are from your game and nocht "back in action"). How configurable will the avatars be? And please try and use artwork from the game's books instead of reinventing the wheel, we'd be eternally grateful if the MPUV actually looked like an MPUV and not just bore the name. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But let me ask a question here then: Would you prefer a true turn based combat (every action costs Action Points or one can do two simple actions per turn etc.) or would you prefer a slow moving real time, where the turn based is "hidden" (like with Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights) and each action simply takes a certain time. This choice means tactics vs action. True turn based would allow much more options in combat like changing stance, reloads, cover etc. while real time makes for a more fluid, action oriented experience.

Turn based, please. Will you use the current rules in the background to resolve combat, or will you go for a rules set less prone to instant kills?

Also, in case you're still looking for artists for the game, try Biometal or Fastfood, Klaus Scherwinski or, of course, Raben-AAS. All have some degree of familarity with the game (which, considering the MS disaster, is a good thing), and all are good at what they do. Biometal designed most of the current Edition's weapons, for instance, Klaus Scherwinski has done illustrations for countless books and written for the German books, Fastfood is just a fan but very good with poses, and AAS is both a very skilled writer and artist, and frequently around on this board, too.

Not wanting to push you or spit on your resident artists, just options you might want to have a look at.

[Blade]

3) Like in Jagged alliance, where you have to secure/cleanse/investigate someplace and then make it out?

I first read that "and then make out"... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

No, Mafia Wars is basically - for all its inherent cleverness and the healthy professional respect I have for a game plaid and paid for by milions - a "click button to move bar" game. We actually intend to do a 'real' game.

Thank God. Zynga games are all about exploiting psychological weaknesses to get people addicted to doing things that actually aren't fun (then pay to get completely meaningless advancement). I hate that, it's wrong on so many levels...

But let me ask a question here then: Would you prefer a true turn based combat (every action costs Action Points or one can do two simple actions per turn etc.) or would you prefer a slow moving real time, where the turn based is "hidden" (like with Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights) and each action simply takes a certain time. This choice means tactics vs action. True turn based would allow much more options in combat like changing stance, reloads, cover etc. while real time makes for a more fluid, action oriented experience.

I'd like something in between: you plan your actions in a pause mode and they carry out in real-time. Interrupting these actions could be possible with a delay that depends on the character (and the situation). This has the advantage of being tactical while keeping actions simultaneous.