Shadowrun Tabletop - Hidden Stories Options

[Blade]

Replacing a NPC with a writer PC... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Anyway, it's nice to see that Horizon's media manipulation ability is not all-powerful and that some writers remember that Aztechnology used to be the top of PR.

I'm still doubtful of the way two failed products can have such an impact on Ares' reputation. Unless each of the "failures" is worse than a Renraku Arcology incident.

[hermit]

Thoughts on the chapters.

The Aztlan navy making their attack on Bogotá (early in the operation)! The ships are en route to the Bogotá submarine base. It's juts a 400 km walk through the Andes. Whoever wrote the Trigger chapter should try consulting maps for reference. Caracas is NOT the same as Bogotá.

Aztlan spent it's entire army twice and wins a war. Because Hualpa cries manly dragon tears the second they start assassinating trees. Why didn't they just start the war like this to begin with.

So Ares decides that, since it's products are reliably sub-standard (which is deducted from that it's pew-pew gadget for weapon-hoarding WASPs sucks), to just mind-control consumers to buy their shit anyway, instead of, you know, making products that work. That will sure work out well. That sounds like much less effort and no ruffled feathers with all other megas.

So the Telestrians take over Tir Tairngire? Well, better than LOLork, I guess.

Replacing a NPC with a writer PC...

Thought so as well, but to their credit, Bull has been an established NPC since 2nd Edition.

Anyway, it's nice to see that Horizon's media manipulation ability is not all-powerful and that some writers remember that Aztechnology used to be the top of PR.

Agree here too. That's among the better parts of the Aztlan writeup.

[Sengir]

The usual update, with special thanks to Ixal: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...t&p=1199313
This time featuring an end to the war where nothing happens, where even a building standing right at the supposed front line takes some damage; and Ares is working to sap and impurify your bodily fluids (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Grinder]

Right on! Thought the same.

[Aria]

Thanks for to all who are keeping the compilation up to date! I've not got time to follow the stories live but I'm enjoying reading them together!

[Sengir]

At least now we know what the secret anti-dragon weapon looks like: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7...b_enh-lores.jpg

[CanRay]

(...besides Mungo...)

I'z getz paid in Icz Creemz! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Ixal]

Looks like the full release of the Hidden Stories or even the Storm Front release is rather close when the Shadowrun team blog something like this about the Hidden Stories/Stormfront
"You may have seen some of Storm Front already in fragments put up on the shadowruntabletop.com website. More were just released, so solve the puzzle and track them down! Then get ready for the full data dump — coming very, very soon!"

[Pepsi Jedi]

Thoughts on the chapters.

The Aztlan navy making their attack on Bogotá (early in the operation)! The ships are en route to the Bogotá submarine base. It's juts a 400 km walk through the Andes. Whoever wrote the Trigger chapter should try consulting maps for reference. Caracas is NOT the same as Bogotá.

Naval forces have been used as platforms from which to launch operations for centuries. Currently air forces are the easiest to comprehend. I.E. You launch your jets off the carrier. You don't ram the carrier up onto the beach. It's why we have the carrier groups we have now. Not because we think someone's going to try a seaward invasion, but for force deployment around the globe.

Aztlan spent it's entire army twice and wins a war.

Well to be fair they pumped alot of their forces into taking down the dragon. Which many here seem to argue can be done with a light pistol and a bit of luck. They didn't pour ALL of their assets into killing the dragon as they were thought to have, but concidering that fight lasted less than a day, it's not like the forces were on the other side of the planet or on a different one. They dog piled on the wyrm and once he was done, they diverted to secondary targets, in conjunction with pre-planned attack on one city.

Because Hualpa cries manly dragon tears the second they start assassinating trees. Why didn't they just start the war like this to begin with.

Because there was alot more to it than that. During the fight with the dragon the opposing forces started their own, disjointed attacks in Bogota trying to take advantage of what they ((Erroneously)) Thought was all of Aztlan's forces being tied up killing the dragon. Aztlan.... actually used some tactics. (( Strange in an rpg I know!)) They waited untill the dragon was 'defeated' and then moved against the opposing forces who thought that they were catching Aztlan with their units out of position. They hit hard and fast and moved the other units in to back them up. Aztlan was also smart and hit the Mercenary support elements first. cut off their transport capability and then hit the city from both with in and surrounding it.

You'd think the writers actually looked up some military operations. it was pretty smart. (( that's not an insult. It's pointing out they actually did something well here.)) With Amazonia's forces cut off, scattered, their Merc back up out of position and with out transport, the Az forces had the upper hand and had the AM forces on the run. It was only then that they just got fed up and started carpet bombing the forest.

This was significant due to the fact that NOT carpet bombing the forests was mostly held in check to keep the dragon's from coming and eating everyone's face. With the big bad terrorist dragon now dead, it was again an option on the table. The wonton destruction of the rain forest, coupled with the decimation of the Am's merc forces and their own forces being on the run, AND the years of the war already in play, likely all contributed to the cessation of hostilities.

So Ares decides that, since it's products are reliably sub-standard

Hyperbolic at very best. Ares is known to have quality products. It was one product that was messed up and it's been stated that it was clearly the result of successful sabotoge of some sort. That Ares clearly wouldn't have put out the rifle if it was messed up that bad.

So "Ares products are reliably sub-standard" isn't true. One product was botched.

(which is deducted from that it's pew-pew gadget for weapon-hoarding WASPs sucks), to just mind-control consumers to buy their shit anyway, instead of, you know, making products that work.

Again, hyperbolic. they make products that work. Save for the one that was messed up. It even states pretty clearly that that product wasn't that big a deal. it was the rep hit that was.

As for the mind control thing. Yes, it's shady, but it's nothing other megacorps wouldn't do. Infact you'd think Horizon specializes in it. ANY Mega corp would love to have this technology and they'd each use it in a heartbeat. Ares just ((Seems)) to be the first to be going to employ it.

That will sure work out well. That sounds like much less effort and no ruffled feathers with all other megas.

Oh I'm sure it'll blow up amazingly some how, and the other mega's will gnash their teeth while they do everything they can to get their own mind control programs equal to or better. Just like the big hubub with the Technomancers which were "OMG!!! OHHHH NOOOES!!!11!!!!" but all the mega's knew about them and most had programs for years.

[Ixal]

Storm Front is out and the Hidden Stories are in the PDF (JackpointTalk).

So get the pdf when you want to read them for full.

[NeoJudas]

Regarding, Stormfront. Got it, read half of it so far. Uhm wow?!?!? I won't give away things as I know I hate spoilers and crap like such myself. I will say I'm impressed at some of the magnitudes. Defines "Epic" at levels that outright challenge some of our stuff, and after 15+ year story arcs of our own, that's a sincere round of appreciation. Won't finish reading the rest of it now... Need to sleep a bit.

[Sir_Psycho]

Black Star wiped out, Aufheben dead. Does SR have an anarchist bone in it's body any more?

[hermit]

Got the file, reading it. ShadowJackal's review sums it about up, but I'll go a bit more in detail, I think.

[Umidori]

Black Star wiped out, Aufheben dead. Does SR have an anarchist bone in it's body any more?

I'm just not sure Anarchism is a relevant plot thread for SR, any more. As much as some people wish otherwise, the Punk movements have mostly died away and Anarchism has lost the rebellious youth appeal it once. Consequently, Anarchism no longer as readily speaks to people in our modern world - it seems anachronistic and out of touch with the spirit of the times.

Even more problematic is the question of plot hooks. What exactly do Sixth World Anarchists bring to the table? What sort of story arcs can you feasibly create with a bunch of guys whose primary motivation is to overthrow the corps? They can't succeed without destroying the world setting, so they're doomed to failure before you even begin. At best they can create pockets of instability for a short while, but you can do that just as easily with other, much more interesting factions.

~Umi

[hermit]

Even more problematic is the question of plot hooks. What exactly do Sixth World Anarchists bring to the table? What sort of story arcs can you feasibly create with a bunch of guys whose primary motivation is to overthrow the corps? They can't succeed without destroying the world setting, so they're doomed to failure before you even begin.

They could attempt to force the corps to make concessions, or crate a small fiefdom for themselves (Kronstadt, Berlin, come to mind). And frankly, anti-corp activism isn't dead, not even in America.

[Umidori]

There are plenty of other parties that could make the same demands, but with additional story hooks to go along with it.

Eco-terrorists, for example, demanding the establishment of nature preserves. Infected (who are shaping up to be the new bogey-men of SR5), demanding their own feeding grounds. Religious radicals, racial supremacists, oppressed minorities, sentient critters, AIs, et cetera, all looking to get a small slice of the corporate pie.

I just don't see Anarchism as being a compelling foundation for storytelling in SR anymore. As the heart of a major plot conflict, "Fuck the system!" doesn't have all that much to offer. It's simply so much sound and fury.

~Umi

[hermit]

Eco-terrorists, for example, demanding the establishment of nature preserves. Infected (who are shaping up to be the new bogey-men of SR5), demanding their own feeding grounds. Religious radicals, racial supremacists, oppressed minorities, sentient critters, AIs, et cetera, all looking to get a small slice of the corporate pie.

Why exactly would such demands get even a modicum of popular support (well, the ecos might). AIs, Infected, and most religious radicals have a hard standing in Shadowrun. Same with sentient critters. The pro-Infected movement was stupid, unplausible writing, made mainly to draw in oWoD refugees, without any in-game logic.

I just don't see Anarchism as being a compelling foundation for storytelling in SR anymore. As the heart of a major plot conflict, "Fuck the system!" doesn't have all that much to offer. It's simply so much sound and fury.

That simplicity allows it to appeal to a wider audience. Just like "USA!" is a greater rallying cry than any particular interest. It'S simplicity allows more people to see themselves in it, without being turned off by those creatures wanting to eat them or those eco-rads wanting them to live like in the stone age.

[Umidori]

You're suggesting that Anarchists are going to get popular support?

Okay, let's say that - somehow - popular sentiment turns in favor of the Anarchists. What do the corps do? They villify them! Hire some shadowrunner teams to wear black leather and go pink-mohawk on the populace, and frame the local Anarchists for it. What are they going to do? Deny it?

Pfft, yeah. People will believe the Anarchists when they say they didn't shoot up a local shopping mall and tag the walls with Anarchist slogans and symbols. They'll listen when they're being robbed and murdered in broad daylight, and they'll listen afterwards while the corps are making a convincing show of "cracking down" and restoring order, rounding up a bunch of fake "ringleaders" and having them summarily put down in the name of the rule of law.

It just doesn't sell. People may hate the corps, but they the still want the structured lives the corps provide. When the alternative is chaos, it becomes very hard for the populace to say no to the corps. I mean, hell, if they really wanted to make a show of it, the corps could pick a city or district to make an example of, shutting off the power and water, blocking off the streets and barricading them in, suspending police and fire services, sending in secret agent provocateurs and letting "Anarchy" reign. After a week, the huddled masses would be clamboring for the corps to save them.

~Umi

[DeathStrobe]

You're suggesting that Anarchists are going to get popular support?

Okay, let's say that - somehow - popular sentiment turns in favor of the Anarchists. What do the corps do? They villify them! Hire some shadowrunner teams to wear black leather and go pink-mohawk on the populace, and frame the local Anarchists for it. What are they going to do? Deny it?

Pfft, yeah. People will believe the Anarchists when they say they didn't shoot up a local shopping mall and tag the walls with Anarchist slogans and symbols. They'll listen when they're being robbed and murdered in broad daylight, and they'll listen afterwards while the corps are making a convincing show of "cracking down" and restoring order, rounding up a bunch of fake "ringleaders" and having them summarily put down in the name of the rule of law.

It just doesn't sell. People may hate the corps, but they the still want the structured lives the corps provide. When the alternative is chaos, it becomes very hard for the populace to say no to the corps. I mean, hell, if they really wanted to make a show of it, the corps could pick a city or district to make an example of, shutting off the power and water, blocking off the streets and barricading them in, suspending police and fire services, sending in secret agent provocateurs and letting "Anarchy" reign. After a week, the huddled masses would be clamboring for the corps to save them.

~Umi

Yep, that sounds pretty much like how its always been. Helps vilifies the corps in the shadows while keeping them looking like the good guys to the public. I'm not seeing a problem. Its not like anarchists are the highest priority threat, just one of many smaller threats. The biggest threat to the corps are other corps.

Anarchists can never really win, but like wise, you can never defeat them. I'm not seeing a problem.

[hermit]

Anarchists can never really win, but like wise, you can never defeat them. I'm not seeing a problem.

Honestly, I think it's cultural ignorance. Just because Americans religiously believe that the answer to every problems is "free markets", that doesn't mean everyone does, so even if this might not be plausible in America, it might well be elsewhere. Of course, if you want to restrict Shadowrun to only America, it might indeed not be the best plot device.

Then again, what, if not an anarchist haven, is Jackpoint, ShadowSea, the whole Shadownet?

[Sengir]

What exactly do Sixth World Anarchists bring to the table?

Free and unrestricted communications for starters, aka Jackpoint...

What sort of story arcs can you feasibly create with a bunch of guys whose primary motivation is to overthrow the corps? They can't succeed without destroying the world setting, so they're doomed to failure before you even begin.

Protagonists in a dystopia are bound to fail? Oh noes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Umidori]

Jackpoint is Anarchist? Source please?

Also, who said anything about Protagonists? The players are the protagonists, not some hypothetical faction of Sixth World Anarchists. That's besides the point, however. The point is that the potential for storytelling seems very weak to me. Anarchists don't seem to offer any obvious benefits to the SR world that aren't already provided by other, more interesting factions.

~Umi

[Sengir]

Jackpoint is Anarchist?

Crypto-Anarchist to be precise, employing technical means to render governmental authority moot.

[Umidori]

Ah. I assumed you meant they were Anarchist in terms of political and philosophical views, not that they merely circumvented abusive legislature.

Of course, even then I'd hesitate on calling them Crypto-"Anarchist". I'd classify their behavior as civil disobedience or the like. They're still part of the system, still operate within and benefit from the governmental structure, and aren't actively trying to abolish authority in all forms - they're just breaking or circumventing specific laws they disagree with.

But let's not derail this thread with too much political theory discourse, eh? Suffice it to say, yes, it seems most of the Anarchist factions in SR are disappearing. Some may view this negatively. I do not. *shrug*

~Umi

[Ixal]

Crypto-Anarchist to be precise, employing technical means to render governmental authority moot.

By that definition every criminal would also be an anarchist.