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BishopMcQ
post Sep 20 2005, 03:49 PM
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Most RFID tags have a signal rating of 1, which means they can be interfaced with at 40 m.

Now if my Hacker was able to take control of a larger signal generator (A cell tower for example), is it possible to trace the signal of the RFID tag? Obviously I may not be able to locate it down to a single item, but it should be possible to put it within a 40-50 m area.

I'm picturing something akin to a selective sound filter, where I parse away all communications that are not on a specific non-standard frequency.

Thoughts?
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Eagle
post Sep 20 2005, 04:03 PM
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The 40m limit is how far the signal of tag travels before it is indistinguisable from ambient noise. This means that a standard RFID tag can not be detected further away than 40m, not matter the size of your aerial.

However you could cause it to activate within the area of the powerful transmitter, then track it by the interaction with the LANs. Sort of a matrix "beacon".
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Nikoli
post Sep 20 2005, 04:06 PM
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One of the things I like abut this is that tags act as pseudo-trackers now. You set one up as subscribed to your commlink (or someone elses that you are hacked into...) and run your track proram to follow it's progress, so long as it's not jammed or in a dead area, you'll know within a few meters of where it's at.
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JesterX
post Sep 20 2005, 04:11 PM
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RFID won't be able to emit farrer than 40m anyway. So even if the hacker is able to emit a few kilometers, he won't receive the signal emitted from the RFID.

Look at the following schema:

(((( A ))))
((((((((((((((((((((((((( B )))))))))))))))))))))))))

You see that A emit much less than B... So, A is able to pick up B, but B won't recieve anything from A, so this is a one way communication.

If you boost the signal from the RFID with a signal generator, it will be able to emit to the range of the generator.

Look at the following schema:

((((A))))
.......((((B))))
..............(((©)))
....................((((D))))

In that schema, A and D can't communicate at all beween one another. But if B and C regenerate the signals emited from A and D, they can talk together.
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BishopMcQ
post Sep 20 2005, 04:12 PM
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Nikoli--Basically I'm using that idea as a way to track someone down who I don't know where they are.

Team gets hired for extraction or wetwork. If the individual has a Security RFID, hack the system, find the frequency and start tracking. Most Security RFIDS will trigger alerts if their signal gets cut off, thus the people wearing them will probably avoid dead zones.
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BishopMcQ
post Sep 20 2005, 04:15 PM
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Jester--I don't think communication is necessary...I'm just trying to plocalize a signal. finding the red ball in green grass can be hard if you're two inches away from the grass, but step back and look at the whole lawn and you can see it.
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Jrayjoker
post Sep 20 2005, 04:24 PM
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The RL analogy is triangulating a cel phone. As long as it is on it will interact with nearby nodes and routers, therefore it is trackable.
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JesterX
post Sep 20 2005, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE (Jrayjoker)
The RL analogy is triangulating a cel phone. As long as it is on it will interact with nearby nodes and routers, therefore it is trackable.

True. That was my 2nd example.
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Nikoli
post Sep 20 2005, 04:31 PM
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exactly JRayjoker
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Jrayjoker
post Sep 20 2005, 04:40 PM
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I just like being pedantic, :D
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Serbitar
post Sep 20 2005, 04:43 PM
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damn, you stole my topic title from "system's guide to paranoia" before I could post it
to hell with you !
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Jrayjoker
post Sep 20 2005, 04:53 PM
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What, you like to be pedantic too? Lets start a club!
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BishopMcQ
post Sep 20 2005, 06:00 PM
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QUOTE (Serbitar)
damn, you stole my topic title from "system's guide to paranoia" before I could post it
to hell with you !

Sorry! If you had let me know in advance I would have used something else...it just seemed so catchy. :)
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hobgoblin
post Sep 20 2005, 06:04 PM
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so to locate a person with a rfid implant one have to be about 40 meters away or less. hmm, could be a interesting find waldo scenario as the signal keeps walking in and out of range :P

btw, 40 meters is a lot if you just want to use it as a shop anti-theft system. in theory one could set it of just by walking around inside the shop or something...
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BishopMcQ
post Sep 20 2005, 06:10 PM
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The tags used for anti-theft probably have a signal rating of 0, which would be narrowed down to 3 m.
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hobgoblin
post Sep 20 2005, 06:17 PM
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makes more sense. even more so if one is talking about portal like directional antenna. only if both of them see the same signal its acted upon...

hell, forget about the ladys counting cash. just walk in, grab what you need and walk out. the portal will read the items and bill you for it, based on the info in the comlink.

lets just hope it does not register something your wearing or carrying from somewhere else as a item in the shop :silly:

hmm, digital shoplifting, fake comlink ID :P

i wonder tho, if one is under 18 or whatever, will the liquor store doors even open? ;)
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Shadow_Prophet
post Sep 20 2005, 06:23 PM
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And or tags used by anti theft systems are traced by the system using GPS software to determine if they're leaving the vicinity of the store as well.
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Nikoli
post Sep 20 2005, 07:10 PM
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Actually, merchandise tracking RID's should be rating 1. Inventory from a single transponder for the whole store in most cases.

The easiest way to track someone with a RFID implanted on their person is to hack into it while within the 40 m (or if you have the device ID, hack it via VR and edit it's subscriber list to connect to your commlink of choice, then track it via that link.
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nezumi
post Sep 20 2005, 08:03 PM
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Rating 0 seems more likely. They'll have localized readers. After all, they don't really care if there's a can of beans in the ladies room, just how many are in the 'beans' section and how many are leaving the store (generally through the entrance).

GPS? Fat chance.
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Shadow_Prophet
post Sep 20 2005, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi)
Rating 0 seems more likely. They'll have localized readers. After all, they don't really care if there's a can of beans in the ladies room, just how many are in the 'beans' section and how many are leaving the store (generally through the entrance).

GPS? Fat chance.

Fat chance? hell a rating 6 mapsoft is only 30 nuyen. Just spend 30 nuyen on that, get a halfway decent agent bam you have something calculating if something is still within the premesis or being stolen. Not that expensive.
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Nikoli
post Sep 20 2005, 08:17 PM
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And the rating 1, 40m is the range touted by RFID propnents for store inventory control today. So, yes, I do see that as being the standard for store inventory tracking purposes.

Pg 212, RFID's have a signal rating 1, 40m.
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Kremlin KOA
post Sep 21 2005, 11:09 AM
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remember if there are 3-4 antannae in a store the exact location of each tag can be tracked
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nezumi
post Sep 21 2005, 02:03 PM
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Like kremlin said. You have two choices:

Pour more money into the antenaes, which are a one time cost, and make the RFID on the products as cheap as humanly possible (which has a higher start-up cost, but lower cost over time) or get one or two cheap antennaes and invest more per item. Unless you're selling ferraris, the first option is probably better. Imagine if the cost difference between rating 1 and rating 0 is a measly $.20. How many sales will it take to make it worth the $2,000 antennae, and how long should that take?
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Sep 21 2005, 02:47 PM
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To use such a setup, a Signal of 1 is required: 40m Range... luckily, that is the standart Signal for any RFID.

A Signal 0 setup would be a shop with only one, perhaps two scanners at the door, billing everyone who leaves.
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Nikoli
post Sep 21 2005, 02:47 PM
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and it would not cover inventory, only purchases/theft deterrence

Please note, standard RFID tags cost 1 Nuyen per 20 and have a Rating of 1 (Signal, Response, Firewall, System) out of the box. (pg 319)

They are so common it's frightening.
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