SR3 -> SR4 character conversion

SR3 -> SR4 character conversion, Is it gonna happen?

Rotbart van Dain... Rotbart van Dainig View Member Profile	Sep 26 2005, 03:23 PM Post #26
Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951	Seems to be covered by Data Search.

Shadow_Prophet

Sep 26 2005, 03:30 PM

Post #27

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)

Thanks but no; I'll get it eventually. I've got to learn the ins and outs of the system myself, and attempting the impossible is just exactly the way to do it. :)

I can't get rid of the eyes though; it's kinda a big part of the character's backstory. (*points at nick*) :D While I'm mucking around in there I might spend some cash on headware/bioware too, though there's not much to actually get yet. I wonder what the SR4 equivalent of the encephalon will be like?

As for skills, no they weren't all skill groups. He actually had no skill in firearms, if you can believe it, and only Ettiquite as opposed to Influence. He did have Computer and Computer B/R though, as well as Sorcery and Conjuring; basically all the skills that suddenly became groups. As well as a few other bits and pieces; they add up quick though.

Hm, what would the equivalent of all those L2 database contacts (out of Matrix) be worth in straight BP now?

Well 70 points just to get all those skills you had at 3 at rank 1? still find that hard to believe but that asside.

The contacts it depends. Conection and loyalty are the two factors in a contact now. How well connected they are, and how loyal they are to the character. Someone who say is a big player in the denver data haven, that you know as a aquaintence or friend in passing might be loyalty 1 but connections 4 or 5 depending. Depends realy on how you want those contacts to be. Gives you alot more flexability. Like you might have a beat cop who's been your best friend since forever but, he's just a beat cop loyalty 5 connections 1.

All depends. And since you have a good background it seems figuring that out shouldn't be too hard :).

And I think I'll still make a general template type thing, or prehapse a char i'll throw at my players later to show that it can be done and to prehapse give you a few ideas :).

Oh and note. With magic 4 you can still through force 8 spells ;). Course with the cyberware you probably have to purchase 5 to do that :).

blakkie

Sep 26 2005, 04:07 PM

Post #28

Dragon

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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Sep 26 2005, 09:20 AM)

As for skills, no they weren't all skill groups. He actually had no skill in firearms, if you can believe it, and only Ettiquite as opposed to Influence. He did have Computer and Computer B/R though, as well as Sorcery and Conjuring; basically all the skills that suddenly became groups. As well as a few other bits and pieces; they add up quick though.

I was talking about not taking any Group skills at all. Yes, a mage does burn a bit more if you try to be both a full Sorcery and Conjurer. I also do find myself spending more like 150BP on Skills, and coming up quite short of the 50% limit on Attribute BP, more-so for mages. For mages by including Edge (which i'm currently likely a lot) and Magic my mages are hitting about 50%.

You really need to look at Negatives when you are mage to come up with BP. You gave up the 'free' one by taking the eyes. If you don't want any other cyber, and little bio you can still go for it. But consider the Platelette Factory, or some of the Damage Compensators at least. Definately check out some of the other Negatives too.

How many contacts are you taking? Those add up very, very fast. Even just a street-fixer that won't roll you for a bag of chips is 6BP. Take 4 contacts of note and you have blown at least 20BP or more.

Also spells i do tend to have more a selection that is the size that i would have had at Force 6 in SR3, as opposed to the total number of Spells i did in SR3. SR4 mages do tend to encourage you to think about what kind of mage you want to be as opposed to a do everything mage.

P.S. Getting any cyber/bio for a serious mage (as opposed to sideline mage) is going to hurt a lot in SR4 at least until Street Magic comes out (assuming it has rules for geas). IMO even it hurts a mage even more than in SR3. Did your SR3 character take a geas? Such is the penalty for story. ;)

krishcane View Member Profile	Oct 4 2005, 03:26 PM Post #29
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 430 Joined: 28-May 02 Member No.: 2,784	* bump again * So, about that character conversion guide for SR3 -> SR4. Any word? Adam, do you know anything about it? Will it exist? --K

NightmareX

Oct 5 2005, 08:05 PM

Post #30

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QUOTE (krishcane)

* bump again *

So, about that character conversion guide for SR3 -> SR4. Any word? Adam, do you know anything about it? Will it exist?

--K

At this rate, I'd say that probably a "No, do it yourself". :(

Jrayjoker View Member Profile	Oct 5 2005, 08:36 PM Post #31
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675	Or they have chosen to be tight-lipped so as not to lead us on.

NightmareX

Oct 5 2005, 08:56 PM

Post #32

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QUOTE (Jrayjoker)

Or they have chosen to be tight-lipped so as not to lead us on.

Given the public-opinion beating they're taking here (don't know about other forums, etc) I wouldn't be one bit surprised.

snowRaven View Member Profile	Oct 5 2005, 09:33 PM Post #33
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516	I've tried several approaches to converting chars now, and found a few things that work: 1) Calculate how much karma the character is worth, on each skill and attribute, and then raise the corresponding SR4 skill/attribute using that amount of karma. Use the extra karma to raise what's approperiate. Pick gear/cyber/bio as approperiate. The problem comes with Magic... do a case by case basis, and maybe give the char a few 'free' magic points(3 or 4). 2) Remake the char with BPs, then raise stats by the characters earned total karma (best for fairly new chars). 3) Use approximates for what levels represent in SR3 vs SR4. For instance: Skills(SR3=SR4), 0=0, 1=0, 2=1, 3=2, 4=3, 5=4, 6=5, 7=6, 8=6, 9+=7. Attributes(SR3=SR4), 1=1, 2=1 or 2, 3= 2 or 3, 4=3 or 4, 5 =4 or 5, 6=5 or 6, 7=6, 8+=7 (Use base attribute, before racial mods). In all cases, there is a significant need to look at the overall character concept and see what fits and what doesn't, and there are concerns like Edge, skills that didn't exist in SR3(and vice versa), Magic attribute, what Qualities to take...the list goes on.

krishcane View Member Profile	Oct 6 2005, 04:19 PM Post #34
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 430 Joined: 28-May 02 Member No.: 2,784	Good concepts, and yeah, a lot of estimates and hard looks at character concepts seem built in. On the other hand, SR3 characters have also had 5 years to improve themselves since the big Matrix crash. If they're not retired or dead, that's a LOT of time to work out and improve. It seems possible to me to just straight convert skills and attributes (cutting them off at caps where needed) and assume that whatever improvements that represents in SR4 are what the character got done in the intervening 5 years. The easiest thing mentally for me would be if there were simply an "official" published answer -- even if it were exactly one of the answers you proposed. --K

snowRaven View Member Profile	Oct 6 2005, 11:56 PM Post #35
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516	Oh yeah, definately - I want an official guide too! Personally I'm not converting straight into 2070 though - our campaign will still be 2065, just with the new rules (alot of voluntary headaches there, I know - I'm using SR4 rules to run through system failure...) - so that makes it both harder and easier...

krishcane View Member Profile	Oct 9 2005, 04:44 PM Post #36
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 430 Joined: 28-May 02 Member No.: 2,784	So, Adam, now that the 4th edition BBB is shipping, how about some news about a character conversion guide? --K

krishcane View Member Profile	Oct 11 2005, 04:18 PM Post #37
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 430 Joined: 28-May 02 Member No.: 2,784	Anyone got any news for SR3->SR4 character conversion? --K

krishcane View Member Profile	Oct 13 2005, 03:02 PM Post #38
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 430 Joined: 28-May 02 Member No.: 2,784	Hey, cool, Shadowrun Missions got updated to SR4. Now, how about a character conversion ruling from SR3 -> SR4? --K

Rotbart van Dain... Rotbart van Dainig View Member Profile	Oct 13 2005, 03:16 PM Post #39
Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951	Do you really expect something different than 'rebuild - spend Karma'?

snowRaven View Member Profile	Oct 14 2005, 02:13 AM Post #40
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516	YES! I expect: "An SR3 attribute of x = x in SR4.' When converting skills, lump together or divide SR3 skills as necessary, which affects their rating in y manner, and then convert SR3 y to SR4 z, according to the following table. And most importantly: When converting magically active characters, the SR4 version receives a magic attribute according to the following table, and initiate grades transport according to this formula." That's what I expect...

Fortune View Member Profile	Oct 14 2005, 02:19 AM Post #41
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486	I don't understand why people find it so difficult to just rebuild and spend Karma.

snowRaven View Member Profile	Oct 14 2005, 02:31 AM Post #42
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516	Because it's not always that easy, when you don't used the cash-for-karma rule in SR3 and that karma didn't go into 'total' because it didn't count towards karma pool...and the characters were around for so long that you don't know how many BPs they were built for. And because it tends to screw over magic characters something fierce, given the very different costs for initiation and the low starting magic in SR4. And, because for NPCs that isn't viable, and to keep things level it's good to have a quick-and-easy system to quickly convert an NPC and keep him 'to scale' But mostly - because it was promised :grinbig:

booklord View Member Profile	Oct 14 2005, 02:39 AM Post #43
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583	At this point I think a lot of folks simply want to see what system the writers at Fanpro will come up with so they can poke fun at it. Or they don't believe they're going to go through with their promise of a conversion guide, and are simply needling them.

blakkie View Member Profile	Oct 14 2005, 03:10 PM Post #44
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263	Some people like the comfort of "official rules", even if in cases like this they will be more "offical guidelines". Of course that doesn't rule out them bitching when they get what they wish for. ;) There actually have been a number of, IMO good, suggestions posted here in the form of "An SR3 attribute of x = x in SR4" that covers most characters that are directly supported by the SR4 BBB and some suggestions for those that aren't (like magicians with high initiate grades and Metamagics not on the very short BBB list. I suspect that the offical guidelines, if they come out with them, won't be a lot more than that. I could be biased though since i posted one of them. :D

snowRaven

Oct 14 2005, 08:14 PM

Post #45

Shooting Target

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QUOTE (blakkie)

** I could be biased though since i posted one of them. :D

LoL blakkie - nevah!!! I'm sure you're humble enough...

I've already figured out a few ways of converting, depending on the detail needed for the character, and unless the 'official' guide is a lot smoother and easier, I'll probably stick to my own 'system' anyway.

But a guide was promised...and I have a thing for promises being kept... (though regarding info 'to be published' on shadowrunrpg.com, I'm still waiting for the stats on Perianwyr and the list of vehicles we were told were gonna be there, and the translated Shockwaves runs...so...)

hahnsoo

Oct 14 2005, 08:36 PM

Post #46

Mr. Johnson

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QUOTE (snowRaven)

I'm still waiting for the stats on Perianwyr and the list of vehicles we were told were gonna be there, and the translated Shockwaves runs...so...)

Perianwyr's stats are in Mercurial p 67 and A Killing Glare p 53-54. While those are 2nd edition stats, it's rather trivial to convert it over to 3rd edition.

snowRaven View Member Profile	Oct 15 2005, 09:29 PM Post #47
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516	Oh, I'm fully aware of those stats. However, brand-new SR3 DotSW stats for him was published in a magazine that I've forgotten the name of, and we were told that write-up on him would appear on the shadowrun homepage about 3 months after the 'zine hit the shelves...same thing for a list of vehicles translated from the german version of SR; published in magazine, supposed to appear on webpage...

krishcane View Member Profile	Oct 17 2005, 01:15 AM Post #48
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 430 Joined: 28-May 02 Member No.: 2,784	Snowraven, if you can get the German versions, plenty of people here speak German and would translate for you. --K

snowRaven View Member Profile	Oct 17 2005, 10:02 PM Post #49
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516	I probably could get the german vehicles, but they'd be kinda useless now anyway ;) I own Shockenwellen, and know enough german to be able to (painstakingly) translate the runs...but I stopped when I found out they were already translating them (maybe I should get in touch with those ppl again...those runs are interesting, if for nothing else than the backstory with Proteus. I wsa also thinking of running a high-powered european campaign sometime, especially now with the high-end content in System Failure). Perianwyr I think was stats 'left over' from DotSW, but I may be mistaken...those are mostly for sake of curiosity, since he's one of my favorite dragons =)

Rotbart van Dain...

Oct 18 2005, 06:26 AM

Post #50

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QUOTE (snowRaven)

those runs are interesting, if for nothing else than the backstory with Proteus.

Yes, 'interesting' indeed was the fitting term to describe most german Proteus story lines.

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