shapeshifter Options

[Straight Razor]

ayn rules for shapeshifters in 4th?

[PlatonicPimp]

Not yet, give me a few weeks.

[blakkie]

[Azralon]

I like the new regen much better than the old (how can you not?). Makes 'em tough but not unkillable.

Personally I woulda been fine with saying they automatically heal only 1 box per round right before rolling Initiative for a new round. Stun first, then Physical, just like everyone else. It would have toned them down a whole lot, but it'd lose an extra roll of the dice and it'd be handy-but-not-gamebreaking enough to keep me comfortable with PC 'shifters.

But anyway, whaddya guess at the racial BP cost for if/when they come out? 50? 40+(animalform adjustment)?

[Jaid]

dunno. now that regeneration is not so insane, i think 50 would be plenty. considering the improved physical stats are generally countered by the fact that they must improve two sets of physical stats. and considering the resource limitations they gave, and the built-in negative qualities, i think they might even go lower (hopefully they'll do it by type, this time though)

[Azralon]

Yeah, that's what I meant about animalform adjustment. A weretiger should cost more than, like, a weretrout.

[blakkie]

Depends a lot on whether they actually have to improve two separate set of stats. Also keep in mind that all awakened critters now have an inherent Magic attribute, so that's worth a lot if they get bonuses in character generation there.

Now that does mean that it will be incredibily difficult to make a non-Mage/non-Adept PC work (and i very seriously question a Shapeshifter Technomancer in anyway allowed), but such is life. Unless you have three special Qualities that mirror Magician, Adept, and Mystic Adept required by and for Shapeshifters only. Or Shapeshifter is a Quality, and costs more if you have one of the awakened Qualities. But that is bizzare, because they aren't actually a metahuman.

I like the SR4 Regeneration a lot better. But it is such that I don't think you actually need to leave that Called Shot option there because they are plenty vulnerable to mundane weapons without it.

Even a rather beefy Body 10 and Magic 5 they will only average 5 boxes. If they add say 3 Edge preroll that gets them up to 7 boxes. But that is for the entire Combat Turn, where they could have faced 2 or 3 damaging attacks from a single opponent. If

Also (depending on interpretation) it deals them a double whammy since the Called Shot can be doing as much as 4 boxes extra damage per successful hit itself. Just a couple Called Shots in Combat Turn and that'll, on average, effectively neutralize the Regenation for that Combat Turn in the above example.

[Jaid]

maybe you should make it so that the extra damage from the called shot can't be regenerated, but the rest can (ie, if they take a -4 penalty to dice pool, they deal 4 points of damage that can't be regenerated, but the gun's damage, plus any additional damage from ammo type, extra hits, or bursts, are disregarded).

that still makes the called shot fairly appealing against regenerating critters IMO, but without making it cancel out regeneration completely.

[Apathy]

What's the general consensus on giving shifters 2 separate sets of physical stats? Would people rather do that, or give them one set, and just charge more for the shifter quality.

In other words, do you think that 'shifter' should cost something like 40-50 BPs and have them raise 2 sets of stats, or should shifter cost something like 100 - 120 BPs and have the physical human-form and animal form stats linked?

And, should the human form be allowed to be any human form (Fox-Troll, for example), or should the human form always have to be human?

[ Spoiler ]

stats for average man: B3, A3, R3, S3
stats for average wolf: B2, A3, R3, S2
animal stats for wolf shifter: B(base-1), A(base), R(base), S(base-1)

[FrankTrollman]

[blakkie]

[blakkie]

[mfb]

i could be mistaken, but i'm pretty sure that the stat mods for shapeshifters in SR3 are equal to (animal's base stats -3).

[blakkie]

Depends. In the Critters book they used the mundane animal's base attributes +1 or +2, and "appear as large, well-formed members of" the species. Thus why the alpha male of the wolf pack is often a 'shifter.

If you go to the SRC where the PC version is given you'll see that none of the modifiers are negative, and none of the animal form modifiers are smaller than the human modifier for the same species.

EDIT: BTW the Seal in the Critter book has a Body 6, and Wolf a Body 5. But in the SRC they have matching modifers for Body. Also there is an Eagle shifter listed in the Critters book, but no Eagle in the mundane critters table. So you had to just make up 'shifter physical stats for them until SRC came out. :wobble:

EDIT 2: Oh ya, and in critters the human form is always Body 5, and the Wolf form has Body 7. But in SRC the human form has a +1 and the Wolf has a +2.

EDIT 3: Oh, and a mundane Fox has Body 2, which gives him Critters Fox 'shifter Body 4, Critters humanform Fox 'shifter Body 5. But in SRC there are no Body modifiers for Fox 'shifters in either human or fox form.

[PlatonicPimp]

Which is why we wish for consistent sensible rules for shifters.

[blakkie]

[PlatonicPimp]

Not to mention that they can pass for a dog of some sort, maybe allaying pursuit if the people after them don't know it can change.

And fit in smaller spaces.

And pay less for airfare since they can ship themselves in a crate.

And lick themselves without offending everyone.
And be naked in public.
And eat all kinds of things peole can't eat. :grinbig:

[blakkie]

Dog i get. Wolf? Errr, not so sure about that. I wouldn't want to count on being mistaken for a dog. *shrug* Also a large wolf isn't a lot different in size than a smallish adult, just shaped somewhat different. They can weigh up to 175lb.

The only thing a Wolf 'shifter would have over the Dog in natural form is the extra IP and an extra 5m running (mundane Wolf gets an extra point of Logic). Since you aren't likely to be spending much time in natural form in IP sensitive situations you might as well just be a Dog 'shifter. You'll fit in better in natural form, and you get the Scent power.

[PlatonicPimp]

One of my neighbors has an alaskan sled dog, and I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between that and a wolf. (yes, I've seen wolves up close too.)

[blakkie]

[PlatonicPimp]

Besides, I've always thought that in the more run down sections of the city (The barrens), Urban wolves aren't all that uncommon.

[blakkie]

[Apathy]

[Jaid]

and unarmed combat. or whatever the shifter calls it.

[blakkie]