 Touch Link Explanation?, Why does this ware exist? |
  |
 Oct 24 2005, 06:41 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364  |
The Touch Link is an implant that allows tactile sensations to be input into the nervous system.
My question is, doesn't simsense already do this? I find it hard to belive the popularity of sim-porn if simsense couldn't already carry a sense track for touch. The only explanation that I can think of is that it was possible to input sense tracks for all five senses under full-immersion VR, but when overlaying simsense tracks to create Augmented Reality, only visual and audio sense data can be overlaid without extra hardware. Does that sound about right? |
 |
 
|
|
Oct 24 2005, 08:08 PM
Post
#2
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
Technically, visual and audio also require "extra hardware" in AR -- contacts, glasses, earbuds, headphones, that sort of thing. But otherwise, that's how I see it too. Also, I'm sure if you shopped around, you could find a "Tongue Trode" to deliver taste as well ... I imagine the popularity of this 'ware will increase with the popularity of AR games. One thing that has me wondering though -- often in the fluff text, there is talk of "virtual weather" and the like. To me, virtual weather would require either a) full simsense immersion, or b) the Touchlink implant. However, it is never listed as a requirement. Being able to see and hear sunshine and rain would certainly be possible for people without such an implant, but to FEEL it seems like the link would be required. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Oct 24 2005, 09:15 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
i wonder if not its more talk about it being like a feedback link. so that you dont need vr gloves or something to touch and manipulate items in AR.
but this is me doing guesswork without the book again... |
|
|
|
|
Oct 24 2005, 09:38 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
If you have a SIMlink, you dont need Imagelink (or glasses), Soundlink (or earplugs), Touchlink and any other links. If you dont have a SIMlink you need them. Its that easy.
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 24 2005, 09:39 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
If you have a SIMlink, you dont need Imagelink (or glasses), Soundlink (or earplugs), Touchlink and any other links. If you dont have a SIMlink you need them. Its that easy. This is somewhere in the rules, I forgot where. (Maybe at SIMlink or AR description)
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 25 2005, 12:27 AM
Post
#6
|
|||||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
I meant extra hardware in the context of direct-neural-input. The items you're listing: contacts, glasses, earbuds, headphones, and the like, are a different means of accessing AR all together, one that doesn't involve direct input into the user's nervous system. Touch Link's equivalent to the devices on the above list would be a full-body force feedback suit. Anyway, I've taken a second look, and it'd appear that the listings for Image Link and Sound Link also seem to imply that these are required to do direct-neural-input AR Overlay for those senses as well. That's what's throwing me off about the whole issue. When I had implemented a homebrew version of AR in my games under the previous edition, I'd been working off the assumption that to do overlay, all you needed was a properly formatted ASIST feed without using the RAS override to lock out the user's natural senses, or to cut out their motor control. That ASIST feed could be inputted into the user's brain via datajack or trodes. However, the official SR4 version of AR seems to be saying that if you want AR overlay directly inputted into your nervous system, you need to get an implant (Image Link, Sound Link, Touch Link, Olfactory Booster, Taste Booster) for each individual sense you want overlaid. Though at one point, the text seems to imply that if you have a commlink with a sim module, and a way to feed the output from that sim module into your brain (datajack, trodes, or simrig) you can experience AR that way. I suppose, if it's possible to get direct-neural-input AR through just a datajack, then the implants could possibly be a way for characters without a datajack to get direct-neural-input AR too. The implants would just have to be included on your PAN via skinlink (implants always count as touching you) and then your commlink could route the sensory data directly to each implant without needing a sim module or datajack. Here's how I plan to handle the situation when I GM:
I don't remember seeing the word Simlink in the book. There's Sim modules, Simdecks, and Simrigs, do you mean one of those perhaps?
|
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Oct 25 2005, 12:41 AM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 16-March 05 From: 51° 16' North 7° 11' East Member No.: 7,168 |
@RunnerPaul: Where would you fit a cranial commlink in you interpretation?
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 25 2005, 12:52 AM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
I put mine in where the frontal lobe used to be. I'm told that it feels great and fits fine.
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 25 2005, 01:57 AM
Post
#9
|
|||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
See Blakkie's post. Seriously though, as long as you spring for the sim module for your implanted commlink, you get Video and Audio AR Overlay just as you would have with a sim module equipped external commlink plugged into your datajack. And since it seems to be the default assumption that your cyber implants all mesh network together into your PAN when it comes to interconnectivity, unless you or the item's description specifies that it only connects to certain things, an implanted comlink that didn't have a sim module would work just fine with Image Link and the like. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Oct 25 2005, 07:07 AM
Post
#10
|
|||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Ah, I meant SIM module. SIMlink must be the German thing. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Oct 25 2005, 09:00 AM
Post
#11
|
|||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Probably. Anyway, I re-read the paragraph on haptics on p.209 and noticed that the sentence that made mention of required "specialized cyberware" was actually refering to smell and taste, not touch. I may end up re-evaluating the guidelines I posted earlier, I'm not sure yet. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Oct 25 2005, 12:41 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 718 Joined: 10-September 05 From: Montevideo, in the elusive shadows of Latin America Member No.: 7,727 |
IIRC whenever you have a sim module you do not need anything else. (but the trodes or a datajack)
If you haven't the sim module, then you need the proper gear: image link, touch link, sound link, etc. Just as Serbitar said first. Cheers, Max |
|
|
|
|
Oct 25 2005, 01:16 PM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 112 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,896 |
Also, IIRC the internal commlink comes with a sim module built in.
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 25 2005, 03:07 PM
Post
#14
|
|||
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,532 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 769 |
that explains a lot... |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Oct 25 2005, 04:41 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Remember that running AR via Sim module makes you a target for emotional Spam... ;)
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 25 2005, 07:57 PM
Post
#16
|
|||||||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
So when the book says "If you wan the full AR experience, you can translate AR input into smell and taste sensory data, but the specialized cyberware mods required for this cater to a small (and strange) market." (emphasis added) that's only for people who don't have sim modules on their commlinks, in your opinion? Personally, I'm reversing what I came up with earlier in this thread, and now I'm going to say that the Sim Module can generate Video, Audio, and Tactile overlay. I am still going to require the olfactory booster, taste booster, or my homebrew smell & taste link for AR overlay of smell and taste.
I can't find reference to that in the item descriptions in the gear chapter or the matrix chapter. Do you remember where you saw that?
And it's a trivial hack to put an on/off switch on the emotive track outputs, should be even easier than modifying it to run Hot Sim/BTL. Any Shadowrunner worth the name should be requesting this from their local hardware hacker by default.
|
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Oct 25 2005, 08:50 PM
Post
#17
|
|||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Why i let you come over to my house? :D |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Oct 25 2005, 09:31 PM
Post
#18
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 16-March 05 From: 51° 16' North 7° 11' East Member No.: 7,168 |
Chapter "Virtual Reality", 2nd paragraph. The last paragraph of the "Augmented Reality" Chapter gives some information about simsense and AR. My problem's still where to put the cranial commlink? "You need a sim module for your commlink to interpret the signals and feed you the data via a cyberware simrig, worn simrig, trode net, or datajack." Obviously I don't need a trode net or datajack, as the cranial commlink's already connected to the brain. But do I need an additional simrig? I don't think so, but I can't find a hint in the rules. Another strange thing: You still need a sim module plus datajack or trode net but no simrig to access full VR! In my opinion you don't need any "senselink" at all for accessing AR, if you're running a sim module with a DNI. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Oct 26 2005, 08:44 AM
Post
#19
|
|||
|
Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
In fact, selective Simsense by hardware is not covered by the rules... possible nonetheless. Considering that the mod for Hot Sim is just removing the safeguards, it would be more complicated, too. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Oct 26 2005, 01:11 PM
Post
#20
|
|||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
The more I think about it, the more Rotbart's original observation makes sense that it's the fact that using a Sim Module leaves you vulnerable to AR data that features emotive tracks that is the reason why the "Link" implants are offered as an alternative. At first, I was just thinking in the context of AR Spam at the local mall trying to induce consumerism-euphoria, but it could just as easily be some adversarial hacker cracking your commlink while you're in the middle of an op, and sending a big pulse of simsense emotive-track "fear" straight into your noggin. Of course, there's the simple solution of hacking the sim module to make it produce just baseline sim, instead of the Full-X that includes the emotive tracks, but that's not always a viable option. For example, a deep cover op, where a runner would want to pose as just another corporate drone. After all, crippling a sim module isn't exactly the behavior of a conformist corporate citizen, and if there's a chance of getting caught and having your commlink inspected, it looks a lot better if it's just a stock, off the shelf model. They don't have to know that you left the sim module off all the time and just used your "link" implants to get your AR overlays. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Oct 26 2005, 02:38 PM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Also note that simsense, sometimes even legal level simsense, can be addictive, while these touch link things are not.
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 26 2005, 03:21 PM
Post
#22
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 29-August 03 Member No.: 5,553 |
The sim module (and it's implanted counterpart, the simrig) is NOT used for AR. It's used for full immersion VR while your body just sits there. It's a combination ASSIST chip and RAS override - see previous editions for descriptions of those. That means it completely overrides input/output to your meat body, with the exception of heartbeat, breathing, etc. If you disable the RAS override, then you get conflicting signals - both from the full immersion VR and from your meat body. Previous editions gave characters massive penalties to all actions if they did this.
If you want AR, you want to be able to walk around, obviously. So you need to have ways of layering the new sensory input over your existing senses through contacts, goggles, Touch Links, gloves, etc. I can post more on this later, when I have a bit more time... |
|
|
|
|
Oct 26 2005, 03:48 PM
Post
#23
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Brisbane, Australia Member No.: 78 |
Time to quote the book :) Page 209
|
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Oct 26 2005, 05:07 PM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Additionally, I would rule that using a Sim Module for Matrix Actions at all (even for AR) makes you vulnerable to Blackout/Black Hammer - don't know whether this is canon...
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 26 2005, 05:47 PM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
I think that's not a bad ruling. Same thing for the emotive overlays, honestly. Sure, you can hack to turn them off, but can't the ads just as easily hack you back to turn it on? Surely the only way to maintain data security is to not have the hookup at all?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 29th April 2024 - 02:02 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.