 What's your Favorite SMG?, Voice your opinion. |
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 Nov 5 2005, 10:30 PM
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#201
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Neophyte Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327  |
Lol, cool, they even list the patent numbers on the Shrike website. Awesome, I'm pulling up them up now. It's fun to look at the drawings of the invention.
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Nov 6 2005, 07:00 AM
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#202
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
Oh, I had a feeling that might happen... It's probably going to be a while.
The caveat... No. To be compatible with the rifle lower, it fires from a closed bolt.
Could be. On the other end, they've got plenty of money coming in from the recent M4 contacts (which they used to buy out Diemaco). Plus, Colt Defense is about to go public, so that should help. They've been doing a lot over the last five years business-wise to stop floundering and get back into the development game. You're right, though. They really haven't tried anything new since the 1980's. Apparently they've been putting most of their engineering efforts into the "smart gun" thing. But they have tried an AR15-based "LMG" platform, as a co-development with Diemaco back in the 80's. It suffers from the same faults as all the rest of the lightweight, non-belt-fed "LMGs". Thankfully, they do give it the right designation, even though they did try to hock it as a replacement for an LMG.
Yeah. There are older patents linked from those that show the design genesis from Eugene Stoner (the guy who designed the AR15/M16) himself. It is pretty interesting. |
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Nov 6 2005, 04:18 PM
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#203
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
My guess with the AR15-based LMG-type weapons is that, ultimately, they weren't intended as replacements for true dedicated machine guns— at least, not by the time they'd gone through development and realized their shortcomings. They do seem potentially viable as a sort of odd hybrid between a light suppression weapon and a potentially quite effective CQB weapon. I don't know how accurate this is, obviously, never having used one in such a way myself, but I have seen pictures of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan with M249s with SPW kits, CQB optics, and some other short range stuff tacked on. I wouldn't be rushing out to get one, but it seems like a Shrike could do well in that sort of application.
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Nov 6 2005, 08:27 PM
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#204
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
I would consider myself fairly knowledgable, and I don't see any reason why you would use a weapon like an LMG in a CQB situation (unless it was all that was available). Though I won't be the first to say "CQB" optics (like the non-mag reflex scopes and whatnot) help for a lot more than close quarters stuff. Close in, it certainly increases your response time, but hell, those things are extra sweet even when you start looking at pretty damn far out shots. It's just a faster, easier sight to use. |
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Nov 6 2005, 08:32 PM
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#205
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
For what it's worth, the picture also showed him coming out of a building with it. That obviously doesn't mean he was using it inside, of course.
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Nov 6 2005, 08:48 PM
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#206
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 752 |
seemed like raygun was hinting at that, the link says automatic rifle, not lmg. automatic rifles are like the BAR, often not belt fed. keeping down the heat is a big factor, polymer cased ammunition could help a lot with it's lower thermal conductivity but I think firing from an open bolt to dissapate heat is still very important. so it won't have the same lower, having the same manual of arms is probably more important than having the exact same parts. |
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Nov 6 2005, 10:45 PM
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#207
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
No, this was not an AR15 based automatic rifle. This was an M249 with the SPW kit to cut down on weight and length, plus some other stuff. And unlike the Colt automatic rifle, even something like the Shrike is still box fed. Other problems still persist, obviously, but the change in feed and structure is pretty significant.
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Nov 8 2005, 05:15 AM
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#208
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
If you're referring to the Colt Automatic Rifle, absolutely. There's no way it could perform in the LMG role. And I agree, that may be another story with the Shrike. The only downside that I can tell is that it fires from a closed bolt, which means it's going to get hotter faster. Otherwise, a Shrike with a 200-round box weighs almost a pound less than an unloaded M249. So long as heat doesn't present a significantly bigger problem, it should be able to perform the same function as the M249 (and otomik's right, PCA might make a significant difference there). As far as I see it, the big trade-off boils down to weight vs. service life. I doubt the Shrike would last half as long as an M249.
I can see why you'd use one like that in an place like Afghanistan particularly, where you're transitioning from a relatively open environment where you need a guy or two capable of laying down a base of fire so others can manuver, to basically caves and some large, walled-in dwellings (almost keeps) where you might also need the manpower for CQB. Iraq presents more of a MOUT environment, but I can see it coming in handy there, too. I mean, it's not ideal for everything, but a small, light LMG would work better for small groups that have to move quicker, I think (a group in which shadowrunners would tend to fall, especially). Enjoy. Let me know if you see anything funky. |
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Nov 8 2005, 06:26 AM
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#209
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Yes! My samurai has a new toy! :grinbig:
-Siege |
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