Non-Canon Explosives, yeah, my players are REAL munchkins. Options

[Perssek]

So, I am back to GMing SR, after a long, dull period of non-SR games. Thank whatever the deity, my players were so attached to their characters that they had no problem returning to their true "spirit" - specially my wife (and her goddamn street-sam razorgirl with essence 0.2).

Well, the thing is: half of the team is composed of (real-life) military fanboys, who insists on having termite and Nitroglycerin in the game. I´ve been stalling them by answering that "such old-school explosives are OUT, everybody who is somebody now goes for plastic, which is IN and doesn´t goes BOOM when you happen to have shakey hands from firing weapons in full automatic all day long."

Well, their characters have been learning chemistry so they could make their OWN nitro and termite. May the spirits frag their psycopathic souls.

Now, what stats do they have? I browsed the forums, but came out with empty hands, and in the net, my weak google-fu found only prices on those itens - not use, effects and damage codes, which I REALLY need.

Any help?

[Ed_209a]

Nitroglycerin is a little more powerful per weight than C4, so you probably won't be too far off by giving it the same stats as Plastic explosives.

However...

Nitro, as you mentioned, is extremely unstable.

If they made the Nitro into Dynamite (a very good idea), they will need roughly 50% more for the same effect.

Thermite does not actually explode. It just burns very hot. Treat it like a very portable cutting torch. A thermite grenade is almost certain to destroy any machinery it is placed on by burning a hole straight down through it.

[fistandantilus4....]

well, IIRC there's something close to thermite in the Cannon Companion. But for nitro, just have it do around 10S, 'bout the same as a modern grenade. Of course, it's a lot less stable. So if they insist on using it, feel free to blow their hands (or whatever) off.

Also remember that in SR, there's the SOTA to ocnsider, especially in the case of armor technology, which is supposed to be ahead of weapons tech (at least with vehicles). So if you don't want them using it, rule that 'modern' armor is more effective against their old school explosives. say a +2 modifier or so?

[Kagetenshi]

Thermite is in the Chemistry section of Man and Machine. It kills zombie mages dead if you spread it on their face.

~J

[ShadowDragon8685]

I'm pretty sure it kills just about anyone dead if you spread it on their face...

[Austere Emancipa...]

[ShadowDragon8685]

Maybe they made the mix more potent and just didn't bother renaming it?

[Austere Emancipa...]

Thermate is already a more potent "mix" thermite, with added barium nitrate, aluminum and bonding agents. Apart from stuff that's already done to increase the burning efficiency of that (adding ferrocene and magnesium or zinc), there's precious little you can do with the basic principle of thermite -- the newest stuff only consists of 25% thermite, changing the mix any more would result in there being nothing left of the basic "Ferrous Oxide + Aluminum" formula.

[Ed_209a]

[Arethusa]

Don't expect a cutting torch to go through armor grade steel very easily. Thermite is not incredibly fast, but it's not that slow, either, and it is enourmously applicable.

[Austere Emancipa...]

When pressed against an object and the heat concentrated on a small area (as in thermite/thermate burning bars) it might do a bit better. It will certainly burn through a few millimeters of ordinary steel near-instantaneously. It's definitely not an anti-armor weapon, though, and will not "eat its way" into metal very well under its own weight.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Still, you can quite handily ruin artilliary by jamming a few of the buggers up there good.

[Straight Razor]

thermite is plenty hot. it has the heat to melt/burn most things. what makes it slow is the fact the heat goes up. and the top of the pile(not in contact with the target) burns first.

[Fix-it]

It'd still be easy to knock out even a tank with a well placed thermite grenade. There are plenty of vulnerable spots within reach (Treads, hatches, blow-out panels, farking up the inside of the main gun)

[Perssek]

Thanks, guys - I don´t have Man&Machine (I play strictly 2nd Edition), but I think a friend of mine does - gonna ask him about the thermite. Also thanks on the tips about Nitro - gotta make sure somebody loses a few fingers if their sucesses don´t amount up to the task (and maybe some other limbs, too - not to mention near buildings).

You know, that´s something I like about the forums - EVERYBODY is always eager to help a buddy GM to frag the life of their players.

Now, let´s make up a table of critical failures while dealing with nitro and thermite...

[Ed_209a]

[Ed_209a]

[Austere Emancipa...]

[nick012000]

On the subject of thermite, while it might not be able to burn through tanks all that well, it can apparently melt holes through concrete and dirt fairly well, according to a friend of mine who made some and melted a hole through his neighbor's driveway (and several feet of dirt underneath it).

[Austere Emancipa...]

[ShadowDragon8685]

If his friend's neighbor's driveway was made of blacktop, and nick attributed it to being concrete when in fact it was blacktop, it is entirely possible - I daresay even the only inevitable eventuality - if real thermite were set upon the surface. Blacktop can become gooey and malleable and prone to pulling away in even the summer sun - ask any schoolyard boy. Thermite? Turn it to a liquid with particles of aggregate in no time. It's basically tar liberally mixed with aggregate rock.

[Austere Emancipa...]

You could melt away whatever is bonding the variety of asphalt-ish substance is covering a driveway or road, yes. Molten tar-like stuffs aren't all that liquid, however, and are not very likely to dig a hole for the thermite or spontaneously move away from under it. It would most likely cause a significant, and odd-looking, depression in the driveway though.

[Edit]Apparently, you can use thermite to cut concrete, but that requires a specialized oxygen/thermite jet which generates temperatures up to around 9000 C/16000 F. The concrete decomposes at these temperatures, and the pressure and mass flow blow the debris away. Not a very useful shadowrunning application.[/Edit]

This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Oct 30 2005, 05:31 AM

[hobgoblin]

i would guess that the tar, if heated enough, would go into a gas state, leaving only the rocks its bonding together. dont know if thermite can produce that level of heat tho...

[Austere Emancipa...]

I would wager that at temperatures where tar or bitumen can be completely turned gaseous from the state they appear on roads in in less than a minute, the rocks would, in fact, no longer be there. And to achieve that effect, you want to go to the opposite end of the NBC weapons arsenal. ;)

[hobgoblin]

maybe so. err, maybe i was aiming for liquid rather then gas. anyways, it may well have some effect on the materials. and if its thin enough a layer (and it most likely is if the person paying for it is a bit cheap) then having the effect described may well happen. we dont realy know the amount of thermite used, not the thickness of the material it supposedly burned thru.