 Metahuman Cyberlimb stats, Man & machine rules revisited |
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 Nov 9 2005, 05:56 PM
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#26
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377  |
See, thats a big beef with me and cyber-limbs, capacity. You can put a smartlink system in your contact lens, but getting attribute enhancements cost a ton in a cyber-arm...That and the limiting-ness of them...
But I am always so tempted to play a guy with an arm for the cool-factor, but I just can't do it, the munchkin number cruncher on my shoulder would'nt allow it... |
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Nov 9 2005, 07:46 PM
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#27
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
No doubt they could. I image, with the right internals, you could design a cyberarm that could generate enough force to lift a small bus off the ground. The problem comes in when that force ends up ripping the arm from it's flesh & blood moorings before the first bus tire leaves the earth. Though you could always go for the full borg conversions. |
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Nov 10 2005, 12:38 AM
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#28
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
True... But you have to consider the body the arm is put on as well - dwarves being proportionally broader and with different muscles, could conceivably be said to be able to support a stronger arm without modification to their remaining meat. (We're already making so many leaps of logic (and faith) in SR rules as is - one more in the name of game balance surely won't matter much...) |
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Nov 10 2005, 01:17 AM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 |
Considering the various sizes and str on the various robot today in industry, I do not see why the cyberlimbs would not come factory made according to the average physical stats of the race that they were bought for.
Dwarfs and Trolls would have to pay more for their limbs because of non-standard sizes due to increased material usage or micronization. A short air cylinder hooked up to 120 psi will crush things just as easily as a longer one hooked up to the same air pressure. The only difference is that a larger mechanism would have a longer reach and could therefore conceavably crush a larger object. |
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Nov 10 2005, 04:30 AM
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#30
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
I totally agree, that is why there is the requirement to buy a cyber-torso when you reach 6, and I dig that. It's after that, the arms are now firmly attached to a cyber-torso built to withstand a lot more than a persons body.... |
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Nov 10 2005, 06:25 AM
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#31
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
I'm half tempted to say that it should be cybertorso and cyberlegs, after all, a firm mounting between cyberarm and cybertorso does no good if meat knees dislocate trying to withstand the force. |
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Nov 10 2005, 07:30 AM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
it would just depend on the situation, applying your strength like argent does to say open a door doesn't mean anything to your legs.
Trying to life a bus on the other hands comes mainly from the legs. |
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Nov 10 2005, 07:37 AM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
omfg, I really read the cyber limb rules, they totally rock now.
Let's look at a pair of arms. arm 15k making it str +3 750 agi +3 750 gee, max for your race (whatever race it is) 16.5k. 1 essence. Hell limbs just got alot more cooler now that I read it. human with two arms that way str 6, agi 6, bod3 on the arms for 23k. not to mention you can save alot of essence by throwing in commlink in a arm, datajack, etc. |
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Nov 10 2005, 07:41 AM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
oooo, just got a picture of the sniper from the ghost in the shell series
the eye with the smartlink mod, put a torso and max agility into the arm and the recoil adjusting thing. |
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Nov 10 2005, 08:11 AM
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#35
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
The leverage you're applying to the door has to come from somewhere, like having your feet firmly planted on the floor. |
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Nov 10 2005, 05:14 PM
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#36
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
In my house rules, cyberlimbs can perform at your racial augmented maximum out of the box. However, when you get them installed, the cyberdoc adds safeties to reduce it's performace to what your meat body is capable of withstanding. Addtionally, limbs are made to match your existing body structure. For this reason when you get a cyberarm, it's stats are exactly equal to your own stats.
It is possible to set the limb to perform better than your meat bod, but in order to do so you must add safety features to the cyberware to insure that it does not damage you or itself during operation. These cost money and take up space. The costs fro stat increases in the book are the same, as is the rule that you cannot increase a stat by more than 3 without a cybertorso. I also have rules for overiding the safeties and maxing your limb output, side effects be damned, but those are pretty complex to implement. I'll post them if anyone is interested. "Redlining" like this is suicidal anyway, as the implant will literally rip itself from your body. |
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Nov 10 2005, 11:33 PM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
I was talking about van doors, elevator doors etc, where the pull is between your torso and each arm. |
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Nov 11 2005, 01:32 AM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 565 Joined: 7-January 04 Member No.: 5,965 |
something to add- in SR 3, a cyberskull or torso did not have its own strength or quickness (agility/reaction) attribute. The limbs attribute is only counted when you use the limb. So, you skull/torso (where most people will be shooting at) do not need strength/agility, just body+armor.
getting only a cybertorso, and maxing out its body and armor. 1.5 essence (1.2 if alpha), 5 or 10 capacity, at chargen you could at most have body +4, armor +2. Body 7, armor +2/+2, and 2 capacity for a commlink, for a mere $21,400 and 1.5 essence. Its cheaper, more availible, and more effective than titanium bone lacing(which is also 1.5 essence), and its legal (R instead of F). A very good deal for someone with a natural body of 4 or less, if they have essence to burn. Unless we get some errata for metahuman cyberlimbs, its a bad deal for orks and trolls, but its great for humans. |
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Nov 11 2005, 02:20 AM
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#39
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
My understanding is this:
You have a body 4 character with a body 6 torso, in order to find his body for dmg resistance you average the two (more if you have limbs with different body attributes) and it comes to 5 in this case, okay, not a horrible deal really....but not the same as getting a body bonus straight off from other body beefing ware.... Also, and I'm not sure about this, but your example of armor isn't how I understood it. I thought you averaged armor also, so your armor of 2 on your torso will be divided among the 5 normal armor locations, which will turn out to be nothing unless you round up to 1...I'm just going off of Sr3 rules and the vagues Sr4 rule about averaging limbs....so I may be wrong on that.... Personally, if armor did work the way you say, I might actaully make a cyber-limbed human sammy. It would make sense to pay 2 whole capacity for it then... I have tried to make a full borg sammy, and even with house rules it usaully can be far outdone by using other bio and cyber.... |
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Nov 11 2005, 03:08 AM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
The rules are fairly explicit. They mention averaging the abilities. They mention nothing about averaging armor. |
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Nov 11 2005, 04:44 AM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
in sr3, you averages the armour of all limbs unless the shot was a specific location.
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Nov 11 2005, 06:07 AM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
I don't care about SR3, because the game is SR4. New rules-set, new rules. |
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Nov 11 2005, 06:24 AM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
if there isn't a rule present in sr4, you could assume whatever you have from 3rd would likely apply.
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Nov 11 2005, 11:42 AM
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#44
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
you have a char with: right arm 4 left arm 4 right leg 4 left leg 4 torso 6 = (4+4+4+4+6)/5 = 22/5 = 4.4 = 4 This is NOT 5. |
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Nov 11 2005, 04:40 PM
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#45
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Yeah, the rules in SR4 are completely explicit. They always make sure to mention important details and never contradict themselves. Take skill caps for example. THe rules are never, ever unclear on what applies and what doesn't. :S |
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Nov 11 2005, 04:55 PM
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#46
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Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 25-August 05 Member No.: 7,621 |
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Nov 11 2005, 04:59 PM
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#47
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
Well, it isn't in your way of doing the math. Obviously. According to the description in the book, you average the normal body and any cyber limbs, not every spot on the body, that would be dumb. So a guy with a cyber torso and a cyber right arm would average natural body+Torso body+R arm body....I see no reason or example of having to do it your (sucky) way... |
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Nov 11 2005, 05:03 PM
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#48
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 |
That was just how it was done in SR3, so I'm sure that's where he was coming from. |
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Nov 11 2005, 05:09 PM
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#49
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
Well, since there was no body attribute on limbs in SR3, there is really no point in this. There are specific rules pertaining to strength and agility, each different and suited to that attribute. But most of the time the averaging rule still worked the way I pointed out, averaging the natural bodys abilitys with the cyber abilitys, not breaking the body up into sections if there was no cyber there.
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Nov 11 2005, 05:36 PM
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#50
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
No, I'm pretty sure it always worked out so that your body came in 6 sections. I really wish there was a "Body slot" or "Paper doll" system for cyberware. something like "retractable claws take up your hand location" or somesuch. A sort of "How much capacity does a natural body part have" system. Ah well, until then common sense mst prevail.
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