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> [RL]SMAW-NE, Thermobaric "Novel Explosive"
RunnerPaul
post Nov 15 2005, 08:20 PM
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There's a new thermobaric warhead for the USMC's Shoulder-Launched Multi-Purpose Assault Weapon. They're calling it a "Novel Explosive" and that's almost an understatement.
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Nikoli
post Nov 15 2005, 08:35 PM
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oooh, that's a purdy new weapon.
I want to see what this does to al-Queda hidey holes where the over-pressure cannot expand out because there's a mountain of dirt and rock in the way.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Nov 15 2005, 08:39 PM
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QUOTE (David Hambling)
[...] massively brutal [...]
QUOTE (HRW)
[...] kill and injure in a particularly brutal manner [...]

Yeah, being killed by overpressure and/or burns is so much worse than being killed by the same plus fragments.

QUOTE (David Hambling)
Thermobaric weapons almost invariable lead to civilian deaths.

They do if you fire them at civilians, you moron. For fuck's sake, this is like saying all ordnance with high explosive warheads heavier than 10kg invariably lead to civilian deaths.

Other than that... Good for the US military, finally catching up on thermobaric goodness. Only 17 years after TBG-7V, too. :P

QUOTE (Nikoli)
I want to see what this does to al-Queda hidey holes where the over-pressure cannot expand out because there's a mountain of dirt and rock in the way.

Well, because of the limitations of the firing platform, this is hardly an effective weapon to go cave-busting with. Might I suggest using BLU-118/Bs instead?

This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Nov 15 2005, 08:42 PM
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 15 2005, 10:01 PM
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Pointy sticks invariably lead to civilian deaths.

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nezumi
post Nov 15 2005, 10:55 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Pointy sticks invariably lead to civilian deaths.

~J

In a particularly brutal manner, I might add. The USMC has not been forthcoming about their use and deployment of pointy sticks in Iraq. I think an investigation is necessary.
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RunnerPaul
post Nov 15 2005, 11:12 PM
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Of course, the pointy-stick issue is just a smokescreen to direct attention away from the use of Boards with nails in them.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Nov 15 2005, 11:23 PM
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But is it a White Phosphorous smokescreen?
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Arethusa
post Nov 15 2005, 11:35 PM
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The Geneva Convention restricts the use of Class III .50 caliber sticks on human targets.
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hyzmarca
post Nov 16 2005, 12:11 AM
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Entropy invariably lead to civilian deaths. The Geneva Convention should be amended to outlaw entropy along with other deadly time-based weapons.
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Czar Eggbert
post Nov 16 2005, 01:01 AM
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QUOTE (Arethusa)
The Geneva Convention restricts the use of Class III .50 caliber sticks on human targets.

Which is why you aim for the Helmet! Its military equipment.

The Eggman
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lorthazar
post Nov 16 2005, 02:52 AM
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So is the uniform, canteen, and backpack..... :D
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Oracle
post Nov 16 2005, 06:21 AM
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The reason why many people see problems with the use of thermobaric weapons is, that it is nearly impossible for civilians to protect themselves against these weapons. Cover is practically useless.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Nov 16 2005, 06:43 AM
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There is very little such thing as 'cover' when you're firing any sort of military round. There is only concealment - which is good. You want to stay out of the way of the combatants, so they don't mistake you for hostiles.

Really, is it any worse than a tactical airstrike?
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 16 2005, 06:49 AM
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Yes. Greater chance of leaving two stones atop one another.

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ShadowDragon8685
post Nov 16 2005, 09:43 AM
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I meant in terms of "civilian casualties," not "damage done," you bloodthirsty one-man mongol hordge.

:P
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Nikoli
post Nov 16 2005, 02:18 PM
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A weapon like this is all the more reason for the civilian population not to harbor combatants, legal and otherwise. If someone invades their home, they should flee, find the nearest US soldier, surrender and explain the situation.
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Critias
post Nov 16 2005, 02:25 PM
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QUOTE (Oracle)
The reason why many people see problems with the use of thermobaric weapons is, that it is nearly impossible for civilians to protect themselves against these weapons. Cover is practically useless.

As opposed to....?

Find me weapons that civilians can very easily protect themselves from, and I'll find you a useless piece of crap. Because it's not like there's some super-secret "civilian training school" somewhere that teaches super bullet-proof manuevers to non-soldiers. If a civilian can "very easily protect themselves" from a weapon, so can an enemy combatant; when everyone can magically be wholly safe from whatever you're shooting at them, you're left with a fucking paperweight.
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Lindt
post Nov 16 2005, 03:31 PM
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QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
I meant in terms of "civilian casualties," not "damage done," you bloodthirsty one-man mongol hordge.

:P

/sigged.

Hey, its gotta be better then the deep earth penetrating nuke.
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hyzmarca
post Nov 16 2005, 03:43 PM
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QUOTE (Critias)
QUOTE (Oracle @ Nov 16 2005, 01:21 AM)
The reason why many people see problems with the use of thermobaric weapons is, that it is nearly impossible for civilians to protect themselves against these weapons. Cover is practically useless.

As opposed to....?

Find me weapons that civilians can very easily protect themselves from, and I'll find you a useless piece of crap. Because it's not like there's some super-secret "civilian training school" somewhere that teaches super bullet-proof manuevers to non-soldiers. If a civilian can "very easily protect themselves" from a weapon, so can an enemy combatant; when everyone can magically be wholly safe from whatever you're shooting at them, you're left with a fucking paperweight.

Just make everyone in the war wear exploding laser tag vests. No civilian casualties because no civilians will be wearing exploding laser tag vests.
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RunnerPaul
post Nov 16 2005, 09:55 PM
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Oh, BTW, if anyone's having trouble with the link, it's due to the fact that fark.com got ahold of it, and the traffic skyrocketed. In short the link is farked (fark.com's version of the slashdot effect).
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FlakJacket
post Nov 16 2005, 10:05 PM
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Wonder how small you could make one of these thermobaric thingamajigs before the size/damage tradeoff meant you were better off with a regular grenade or other regular munition?
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Austere Emancipa...
post Nov 16 2005, 10:21 PM
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I'm guessing somewhere around the bigger autocannon rounds -- between ~200 and ~500 grams / 25mm - 40mm -- since I can't recall any attempts at making thermobaric warheads smaller than that.
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Siege
post Nov 17 2005, 12:12 AM
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Bloody hell...we've got all sorts of new runner toys today.

-Siege
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Adarael
post Nov 17 2005, 01:06 AM
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So these 'thermobaric' weapons essentially seem like a fancy way of saying Fuel-Air explosive. Am I right in that?
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GrepZen
post Nov 17 2005, 03:36 AM
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Yup...but 'thermobaric' just sounds so scientific & non-threatening for the PC people who might want to kill such a nice weapon (because it might hurt someone :please: ).
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