Full Version: [RL]SMAW-NE
There's a new thermobaric warhead for the USMC's Shoulder-Launched Multi-Purpose Assault Weapon. They're calling it a "Novel Explosive" and that's almost an understatement.
oooh, that's a purdy new weapon.
I want to see what this does to al-Queda hidey holes where the over-pressure cannot expand out because there's a mountain of dirt and rock in the way.
I want to see what this does to al-Queda hidey holes where the over-pressure cannot expand out because there's a mountain of dirt and rock in the way.
| QUOTE (David Hambling) |
| [...] massively brutal [...] |
| QUOTE (HRW) |
| [...] kill and injure in a particularly brutal manner [...] |
Yeah, being killed by overpressure and/or burns is so much worse than being killed by the same plus fragments.
| QUOTE (David Hambling) |
| Thermobaric weapons almost invariable lead to civilian deaths. |
They do if you fire them at civilians, you moron. For fuck's sake, this is like saying all ordnance with high explosive warheads heavier than 10kg invariably lead to civilian deaths.
Other than that... Good for the US military, finally catching up on thermobaric goodness. Only 17 years after TBG-7V, too.
| QUOTE (Nikoli) |
| I want to see what this does to al-Queda hidey holes where the over-pressure cannot expand out because there's a mountain of dirt and rock in the way. |
Well, because of the limitations of the firing platform, this is hardly an effective weapon to go cave-busting with. Might I suggest using BLU-118/Bs instead?
Pointy sticks invariably lead to civilian deaths.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Pointy sticks invariably lead to civilian deaths. ~J |
In a particularly brutal manner, I might add. The USMC has not been forthcoming about their use and deployment of pointy sticks in Iraq. I think an investigation is necessary.
Of course, the pointy-stick issue is just a smokescreen to direct attention away from the use of Boards with nails in them.
But is it a White Phosphorous smokescreen?
The Geneva Convention restricts the use of Class III .50 caliber sticks on human targets.
Entropy invariably lead to civilian deaths. The Geneva Convention should be amended to outlaw entropy along with other deadly time-based weapons.
| QUOTE (Arethusa) |
| The Geneva Convention restricts the use of Class III .50 caliber sticks on human targets. |
Which is why you aim for the Helmet! Its military equipment.
The Eggman
So is the uniform, canteen, and backpack..... 
The reason why many people see problems with the use of thermobaric weapons is, that it is nearly impossible for civilians to protect themselves against these weapons. Cover is practically useless.
There is very little such thing as 'cover' when you're firing any sort of military round. There is only concealment - which is good. You want to stay out of the way of the combatants, so they don't mistake you for hostiles.
Really, is it any worse than a tactical airstrike?
Really, is it any worse than a tactical airstrike?
Yes. Greater chance of leaving two stones atop one another.
~J
~J
I meant in terms of "civilian casualties," not "damage done," you bloodthirsty one-man mongol hordge.
A weapon like this is all the more reason for the civilian population not to harbor combatants, legal and otherwise. If someone invades their home, they should flee, find the nearest US soldier, surrender and explain the situation.
| QUOTE (Oracle) |
| The reason why many people see problems with the use of thermobaric weapons is, that it is nearly impossible for civilians to protect themselves against these weapons. Cover is practically useless. |
As opposed to....?
Find me weapons that civilians can very easily protect themselves from, and I'll find you a useless piece of crap. Because it's not like there's some super-secret "civilian training school" somewhere that teaches super bullet-proof manuevers to non-soldiers. If a civilian can "very easily protect themselves" from a weapon, so can an enemy combatant; when everyone can magically be wholly safe from whatever you're shooting at them, you're left with a fucking paperweight.
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) |
| I meant in terms of "civilian casualties," not "damage done," you bloodthirsty one-man mongol hordge. |
/sigged.
Hey, its gotta be better then the deep earth penetrating nuke.
| QUOTE (Critias) | ||
As opposed to....? Find me weapons that civilians can very easily protect themselves from, and I'll find you a useless piece of crap. Because it's not like there's some super-secret "civilian training school" somewhere that teaches super bullet-proof manuevers to non-soldiers. If a civilian can "very easily protect themselves" from a weapon, so can an enemy combatant; when everyone can magically be wholly safe from whatever you're shooting at them, you're left with a fucking paperweight. |
Just make everyone in the war wear exploding laser tag vests. No civilian casualties because no civilians will be wearing exploding laser tag vests.
Oh, BTW, if anyone's having trouble with the link, it's due to the fact that fark.com got ahold of it, and the traffic skyrocketed. In short the link is farked (fark.com's version of the slashdot effect).
Wonder how small you could make one of these thermobaric thingamajigs before the size/damage tradeoff meant you were better off with a regular grenade or other regular munition?
I'm guessing somewhere around the bigger autocannon rounds -- between ~200 and ~500 grams / 25mm - 40mm -- since I can't recall any attempts at making thermobaric warheads smaller than that.
Bloody hell...we've got all sorts of new runner toys today.
-Siege
-Siege
So these 'thermobaric' weapons essentially seem like a fancy way of saying Fuel-Air explosive. Am I right in that?
Yup...but 'thermobaric' just sounds so scientific & non-threatening for the PC people who might want to kill such a nice weapon (because it might hurt someone 
).
).
How about "Make big booms"?
Due to the fact that plastic explosives now go to rating 15 in Shadowrun 4, I have started calling C-15 'salsa maker'.
Thousands of obsolete M72s, and I bet they won't even let me have one.
| QUOTE |
| So these 'thermobaric' weapons essentially seem like a fancy way of saying Fuel-Air explosive. Am I right in that? |
Essentially the same effect, but fuel-air explosives are liquid state, and thermobaric explosives are solid state and thus more portable.
At least, that's the impression I got from the article.
M72s aren't really obsolete, they just aren't anti-tank weapons anymore.
I imagine they will really mess up unarmored vehicles, and do a number on a lot of APCs and armored cars.
It is also lots smaller than the AT4 that replaced it.
I imagine they will really mess up unarmored vehicles, and do a number on a lot of APCs and armored cars.
It is also lots smaller than the AT4 that replaced it.
Yeah- same weapon, different tactical role. Just like nobody makes anti-tank rifles anymore- the armor is too thick to penetrate with a man-portable rifle- but everyone's getting excited about anti-materiel rifles, which are essentially the same beasties repurposed for attacking things like helicopters, trucks and facilities.
I see their point regarding civilian casualties. The bigger the area of effect, the more likely you'll catch somebody in it you didn't intend. So big area effect weapons should be used with care in urban settings.
But so what? The same goes for B-52s.
But so what? The same goes for B-52s.
| QUOTE (Toptomcat) | ||
Essentially the same effect, but fuel-air explosives are liquid state, and thermobaric explosives are solid state and thus more portable. At least, that's the impression I got from the article. |
The interesting thing to me was that they are using aluminum (or something like it) as their incindiary and creating a slow moving shockwave. This is really much more effective for destroying structures and the fact that setting off a slower moving shockwave in an enclosed space is more devastating to the third power leaves very little hope to the people (guilty or not) trapped in the AOE.
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