 When two PCs have it out for each other..., or "The joys of the vindictive flaw" |
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 Nov 30 2005, 10:45 PM
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#51
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 29-November 05 Member No.: 8,022  |
Solstice, since you continually reference your character's 'professionalism' as his reason for not allowing his Sea Madness to overpower him and lead him to go with character B off the ship, then you should also see that the professionalism would overpower the 'Vindictive', and not attack or deliver a "savage beating" to the other character, who is a member of your team.
Savage beatings, and vindictive assaults on team mates are the epitomy of UNPROFESSIONAL. Sure he aimed a gun at you, but he didn't shoot you, so a professional should hold his temper in check and not vindicate it. Furthermore, if it is thought that the character should savagely beat character B for the rather significant slight, then I'll point out that the professional and responsible character would more likely try to reason with the other character, and try to avoid putting him in that situation again. Also, your Sea Madness not kicking in is bullshit. That's a lack of understanding what the rule implies. It does have a time that it 'kicks in', sortof, but that is just the game-statistic where it must happen, the character would be fealing the effects much earlier, and share the other one's fear. |
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Nov 30 2005, 11:00 PM
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#52
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 504 Joined: 8-November 05 From: North Vancouver, BC Member No.: 7,936 |
All the professionalism means is that he wouldn't do it right then, but when they were in a unimportant situation (like a safehouse or something). Also, being overly professional, he would probably have an ego, and not like being treated that way.
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Dec 1 2005, 12:44 AM
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#53
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Please, omg, I can't even reply to that post it was so retarded. I'm overcome with sorrow. Can you not read the flaw as stated in the SR Comp? It fucking says 24 hours!! 24 hours not 2, not 3, but 24. As in a full day, one full rotation of the Earth. Would my character be freaked out that a water spirit is killing everyone on a godforsaken ship out at see? Yes! Would I leave immediately (after a couple hours) knowing that the Johnson will have my nuts when I get back? No. Would I jepordize my rep and possibly frag up a job to teach a newbie a lesson? No. He isn't a full memeber yet because he is new and green. Get with the program you jackass. Preferably before you go calling bullshit on things you obviously do not fully comprehend. |
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Dec 1 2005, 02:11 AM
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#54
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
The difference being that some of us see that "flaw" as an integral part of your character's personality. It's part of him. He knows he can't stand to be out at sea.
The rest of us seem to see it as a +9 against ogres.
As I've clearly shown, not having the same viewpoint on flaws hardly warrants going around calling someone a jackass. You're technically correct. The flaw "doesn't kick in until 24 hours has passed". However, you are, IMO, interpreting the flaw in a horribly narrow (and dare I say munchkinny?) way. The numerical penalties of the flaw don't affect you for the first 24 hours. The character still has the flaw, and a suggestion that you roleplay it is hardly out of line. You're reading the flaws as build points rather than an integral part of the character that you're playing. That's fine. But you could at least make the attempt to understand where others are coming from, especially when you ask for advice and the give it freely. |
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Dec 1 2005, 02:44 AM
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#55
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
That's fine and I agree. But it's beyond the scope of the question and frankly not relevant to my conern, which was, before all this retardedness, asking for opinions on the constraints of the vindictive flaw. Not "please tell me how I was playing my character incorrectly via the sea madness flaw".
Sea madness is spelled out very clearly in the SR Comp. I don't need you trying to tell me that I played it out incorrectly. In other words: Get off my nuts please. |
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Dec 1 2005, 02:58 AM
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#56
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Umm, well you did bring up the flaw somewhere in your post. Let's see....the first sentence? But hey, your "problem" could be solved by you following the clearly worded Vindictive flaw. So maybe you aren't in the best position to be spouting off like a......jackass? ;)
Word scramble!!! :D |
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Dec 1 2005, 03:18 AM
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#57
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
I think I can fix this. It's RANDOM CHART TIME!
There. Now it has definite mechanics to use whenever one needs a handy substitute for roleplaying. [insert obligatory smiley of your choice to soften the snark] |
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Dec 1 2005, 03:39 AM
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#58
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
I hardly think that presenting the question, receiving input and then getting harrassed for not roleplaying in a manner you feel acceptable is logical. But hey whatever makes you feel better.
I certainly have no problem rping my characters response but I'm at times...let us say....less than delicate and I thought some insight from the wise old grossbacks of this forum might be refreshing. I had actually determined to stop being belligerent in my posts and I was hoping this friendly disscussion might be just the vector. Sadly, as is the norm here, it was invaded by pretentious asshats who see fit to straw man a thread into oblivion. |
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Dec 1 2005, 05:54 AM
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#59
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
That would have been fine if you hadn't seemed fixing to channel said belligerence into the noob. :P |
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Dec 1 2005, 05:54 AM
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#60
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
That would have been fine if you hadn't seemed fixing to channel said belligerence into the noob player. :P |
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Dec 1 2005, 06:41 AM
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#61
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Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 29-November 05 Member No.: 8,022 |
wow Solstice, if it wasn't for you being such an excessively poor writer and logician, i would take the time to care about both capitalizing my writing, and actually referencing yours.
instead, i'll just echo some of the statements many of the others have made: sounds like you were more interested in PK decorum so you could use your vindictive munchkin to do what vindictive munchkins do best. have fun with it. |
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Dec 1 2005, 07:17 AM
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#62
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover Member No.: 7,624 |
I assume that the newbie player is also playing a newbie character. Then the most professional reaction would be to tell him under four eyes in a very calm way that drawing a gun on someone on the streets is a clear death sentence. Tell him that you put the whole situation under "newbie unprofessionalism" but that next time if he does a thing like this he should better shoot you. Otherwise you would kill him without any further warning like everyone else would do who is not his teammate.
He threatened to kill you. You threatened to kill him. You are even. Without looking like an asshole. And you even behaved like a good teammate. |
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Dec 1 2005, 10:18 AM
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#63
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
I love when peope post up some bullshit about their last session, and then don't understand when internet forum-goers have input on every facet and detail that's shared with us, not just the one question. Imagine a car forum:
"So, yeah, the other day I got Girl Seventeen in my van. She was tricky. The usual candy didn't work, I had to pull out a fluffy kitty and let her pet him a little, then lure her in. Once the door was shut, though, it was all rubber tubing, hatchet, and bone saw, like all the others. This time the tarp rode up a little, though, and some blood got on my upholstery. I haven't had a mess like that since Girl Three, back when I had just started my global-cleansing program at local elementary schools. Most of the rest have been real clean. Girl Eighteen better not make a mess like this." "So, what brand of spray is best to get rid of stains on a slate grey seat cushion?" Now, would it be right for that imaginary internet poster to be upset that people read more than just his question about stain removal? Likewise, you shared information about your character, your character's other flaws, etc, etc. You need to understand, man, if you post something on here, some of us -- maybe most of us, maybe just most of us that post -- are going to find something you did wrong, something your GM did wrong, something you all did wrong, something you did differently than us, etc, etc, etc. It doesn't matter if the 'run went off without a hitch, someone, somewhere, is going to start a conversation about what you did wrong. Deal with it, or learn how to ask a question without giving away enough information for people to latch on to. |
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Dec 1 2005, 10:44 AM
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#64
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
If it is anything like this board posters would nag him about how drugging the candy is much more efficient, allowing him to pick up multiple targets and once, reducing overall noise pollution, and eleminating the need for the hatchet in most cases. The later is relevent to the question since the hattchet is more likely to cause blood splatter than the bone saw is. Someone else would them reply that drugs don't always work and that he should just use a machine gun. Someone else would ask if he sells the organs and rip him a new one if he doesn't and someone else would offer to buy the bodies from him so long as they came with barbecue sauce.
Actually, that was a result of a gun wrangler screwing up. They put dummy tips in the revolver so that it would appear to the loaded for one scene. When it came time to actualy shoot they put blanks in but forgot to remove the tips. The result was the blank propelling the tip out of the gun as if it were an acual bullet. |
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Dec 1 2005, 04:16 PM
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#65
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Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 29-November 05 Member No.: 8,022 |
Hmmm.... my thought on the girl situation is to probably have a loud stereo in your van because 1) chicks are impressed by that shit, and 2) it will drown out the sounds of the saw.
I definately agree with the drugs though. always try the drugs. If you want my advice on stain removal though, I'd suggest a light solution of clorox and vinigar to cover all aspects of the stain. Most important for next time though: get seat covers...... Of course all of these measures might not help if you are impulsive and just grab a girl out of the parking lot without stopping to set them up. |
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Dec 1 2005, 05:53 PM
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#66
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 207 Joined: 3-November 05 From: KCMO Member No.: 7,922 |
Wow. :(
Can we move to a different example please? The current example (of a post with excessive information) is making me REALLY uncomfortable...as in sick. |
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Dec 1 2005, 06:05 PM
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#67
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
If you got to it right away, you could try salt. I know that works on red wine on carpeting. Of course, if the cushion is vinyl or leather, you should be more or less clear. If it's upholstry... Man, I couldn't guess. Might be time to upgrade. Leather is much nicer for what you're trying to do anyway. Oh wait, I think we got derailed somewhere. |
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Dec 1 2005, 06:58 PM
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#68
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 25-May 05 Member No.: 7,414 |
But they sure as hell are funny! Also, that is why it's called the Vindictive flaw The PROFESSIONAL response would be to walk away from the "team mate" who drew down on you and never work with them again. The PROFESSIONAL VINDICTIVE response would be to kill them for committing such a massive faux pas during a mission. As I stated earlier, either of these two responses - even though they may be in character, would have the real effect of forcing the noob to make another character. This was his first game? Continue to force him to make a new character every game session and the only thing you are teaching him is to hate chargen. For the above reasons, I still whole-heartedly support beating the noob character half-to-death, then reviewing what they have learned during recuperation. OK, maybe only beat them to Moderate, but anything less is just a slap on the wrist. |
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Dec 1 2005, 07:21 PM
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#69
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Sell his organs while he's still alive but just the one's that he doesn't need. Spend the profit on bunraku joytoys or whatever form of stress relief you happen to fancy.
Loosing a kidney, a lung, his spleen, both his corneas (assuming he still has some), and half his liver may just mellow your running mate out. On second though, leave the corneas. He might get mad if you blind him. Replacement eyes cost money. However, don't forget to joke with him about how an old Chineese man is using his gal bladder as an aphrodisiac. |
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Dec 1 2005, 08:54 PM
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#70
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 25-May 05 Member No.: 7,414 |
That may be the funniest thing I have read in a week. hyzmarca, my hat is off to you sir. :notworthy: |
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Dec 1 2005, 10:56 PM
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#71
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Wow that analogy was soooo right on. That's exactly what it's like. :please: As for my supposed PK tendencies. If I had PK tendencies I would have beat him senseless with my troll buddy and left him on the ship to be killed by the pissed off spirit. And don't talk to me about munchkining. There is a difference between being a munchkin and being a little bit unsure as to how to get revenge on a brand new PC with a brand new player. Totally valid by me. Totally invalid by you. If munchkining means wanting to follow in the spirit of the flaw then I guess I'm guilty. As for insulting my logic. Well, if the flaw states "24 hours" than I guess I have a valid reason for finishing the job in a couple hours don't I? You can't get more logical than that. |
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Dec 2 2005, 02:15 AM
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#72
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Of course it would. If you were playing a chaotic stupid barbarian with an intelligence of three. Oh wait...wrong game.
But you aren't. You're following the letter (or in this case, the number) of the flaw. Granted, this is just my way of looking at things, but if a person is terrified of being on the open ocean, they don't walk around on a boat that's being harrassed by a big bitch of a water spirit for 23 hours 59 minutes 59 seconds and then suddenly go "Oh shit! I need to get me on some land!" It just doesn't make any sense. The numbers, as I said before, are the eventual numerical/mechanical effects of the flaw, not the only thing it should encompass. |
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Dec 2 2005, 03:17 AM
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#73
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Or if you were playing in a game in which people actually expect their actions to have realistic consequences. It might be excessive... but it sure as hell is not an inherently stupid thing to do. If anything, keeping someone who panicked and turned a gun on a teammate around because they happen to be a PC is pure D&D... |
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Dec 2 2005, 06:34 AM
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#74
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 494 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Amazonia Member No.: 7,102 |
i was ctually just reading through the old Shaddowrun Supplimental books that I have printed out (if anyone has the first 6 issues i'd be very appreciative of a copy :P) and, I was reading an article on flaws (somewhere around issue 13-14, i can check if you really want). In the article, under Vindictive, it says something about a waiter screwing you out of 2 nuyen and threatening him with a knife. I agree with this personally. YOu took a Flaw. These aren't just little things that give a character personality. You got more points to make your character from this. It's a serious matter that should be taken seriously. Your character should do SOMETHING. I'm not one to say what. But, I'll give some examples of things that happened in previous games.
My current character, Nightshade, has no flaws. But, as a character, he is protective of friends and the like. A long time running mate, Jack, and the whole team were at a Diner, meating with our Fixer (Some of you may remember a drawn out discussion about this about 6 months back). Nightshade and Jack had been on 15 or so runs together and also did things socially. Friends. As in, Team karma pool with him and one other. A new runner was called in for the meeting and at sometime during which, started casting a mind-altering spell (I don't even remember which one anymore, as it was unclear to begin with, but the casting time was longer than 1 round IIRC) on Jack. Now Nightshade is Dual Natured becuause of strange things, (you can read the story on my user page in the 6th world Wiki. Anywho, so, he's always percieving, sees the spell, (has magic theory 6), knows it's mind-altering and punched into the middle of the table (i.e. enters astral combat with the spell) and defeats it. There was much arguing in and out of game as to what was to be done, and we dicided on that character not being able to run with the group anymore, becuase, the fixer knew me better than the new girl anyway. I almost killed her on the spot, but, The one playing the offender had not played with us for a long time, and I wanted him to keep playing. Farther back in time, under a different GM (andtually, the one was played the caster in the last story :P). the characters didn't get along at all, one of the characters pointed as gun at someone or threatened them (i don't really remember). It was let go until the end of the run (so that the person could keep playing, and for professionalism of getting the job finished before personal agenda). The threatened character said to one of the other characters, "I'll pay you to kill him" and then, as he was leaving somwhere ( i think he was naked), the paid character turned to the one who made the threat and said "nothing personal, Just biz" and shot him in the head. As you can see, it depends on the situation (in and out of game) as to what happens. And, yes, I know (I use alot of parenthesis) |
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Dec 2 2005, 07:47 AM
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#75
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Did I say it was "exactly what it was like?" No. I gave an example, and asked a question. If someone posted the above, do you think everyone would ignore the "why is he asking this?" and pay attention to his question, and only his question? Instead of answering my hypothetical question, you rolled your eyes. I think that's because you know the answer. What made you think you could post something on Dumpshock, and not get people nitpicking it? I can think of six or eight times this shit's happened, easily, just off the top of my head. If all you want is a bare bones answer to a question, say "Someone's pointing a gun at my Vindictive character and demanding we call off a job, mid-session. I say no, we work things out later and complete the job. Now what should I do, to RP my Flaw?" Simple as that. Don't go on about other flaws, the situation as a whole, etc, etc, and expect for the ravenous mongrels of DS not to tear it apart, like the bunch of jackals, hyenas, or wolves (depending on the day of the week) we are. It's no one's fault but yours. |
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