 Hacker Party Tricks, suggestions for hacks |
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 Dec 1 2005, 03:53 AM
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#26
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 30-November 05 Member No.: 8,023  |
My understanding is that unless someone had their comlink turned OFF (not just passive or hidden) that you have at least a chance of hacking into it. And of course, once you have access to someone's comlink you can always convince their gear that the commands you give them are legitimate.
Couldn't even internal gear be hacked? I mean, unless someone made the effort to have every single RFID tag in their wired reflex system removed via microsurgery, what's to stop a hacker from somehow breaking in setting its controller to enter a diagnostic mode or some other interrupting activity? |
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Dec 1 2005, 06:17 AM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
Datajack or Palmlink for guns.
Again, there's no reason ANY shadowrunner should get his ware hacked. Although there is precedence for your ware getting hacked in the SR4 book it mentions loading cyber with IC. |
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Dec 1 2005, 09:11 AM
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#28
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Target Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 30-November 05 Member No.: 8,023 |
Isn't saying that there's no reason any runner should get hacked the same as saying that there's no reason why any runner should get shot?
Wouldn't sufficient skill overcome any defense eventually? |
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Dec 1 2005, 09:37 AM
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#29
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
no, if you just use the cyber palm link like every one did in the 60's ,there's no wireless connection at all to hack in to. It was just a circuit in the palm of the hand that made the connection directly to the guns comp through the grip. No wires, no wireless, all internal.
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Dec 1 2005, 11:18 AM
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#30
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
There is still the possibility that a social adept/hacker with a skinlink will hack your smartlink while he is shaking your hand.
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Dec 1 2005, 11:41 AM
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#31
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
which happens a lot in a situation where you would have a gun in hand,..... like a gun fight.......
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Dec 1 2005, 12:17 PM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 27-April 05 From: Summoning a spirit of the land Member No.: 7,362 |
LOL,
I think he means more like 'plant an agent' than hack your gun while shaking your hand in a firefight... "I'm gonna shake his hand!" *GRAPPLE ROLL* "You failed, he's shooting you in the face!" "OH NO!" hey, it could happen |
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Dec 1 2005, 12:57 PM
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#33
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Yes, I meant to plant an agent in a social situation for use later. Say Mr J is a leet hacker and he intends to betray Dude S When they come to an agreement for the run they shake hands. Mr J is l33t haxor and plants an agent in Dude S's shartlink system.
When Dude S comes to collect his nuyen for a run well done a his targeting reticle is replaced with a giant pink drop bear which covers his entire field of vision, leaving him blind as he is riddled with bullets. It doesn't even have to be a social hacker. A smartlink owner can hack himself doing something seemingly innocuous like downloading a new reticle pack off the matrix. |
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Dec 1 2005, 02:18 PM
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#34
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 |
In SR4 can you even buy a palmlink? I was under the impression that inductive datajacks/palmlinks arn't in the core book (thought will probably come out in a splatbook), and that that functionality was replaced by skinlinking things. In essense, what I was talking about is the same as having the inductive pads (except skinlinking is in the core book), because there are still no wires, and no wireless.
Its not internal, its on the surface of your skin, but some guy cannot mess with it using radio-waves. In fact, to screw with you, he would have to get on your skin-network (maybe by shaking your hand, assuming his commlink is also skinlinked) but would still have to hack his way past your firewall as normal... that, and that the core book doesn't address transmissing across more than one set of skin (sending a message through my bioelectric field to your bioelectric field, and then to your gun). |
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Dec 1 2005, 02:37 PM
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#35
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
In SR4 you would just use the skinlink. But if you have it networked through your commlink (a must for traffic management if you have several devices skinklinked) and your commlink is connected to the Matrix, then it can still be hacked through the commlink, just not directly.
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Dec 1 2005, 02:56 PM
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#36
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
I don't recall reading that. |
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Dec 1 2005, 03:01 PM
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#37
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 |
Well, of course, so you just turn the commlink's wireless off. A street-sam or gun-adept has no buisness trying to hack anything, or browse the uber-web, in the middle of a gun-fight... if you have to have a commlink online in the middle of a gun-fight, for some wierd reason (like, you're the team hacker AND you wanna go banannas with your smartlink) use TWO commlinks - they're dirt-cheap, and just about anyone you knock-out or disable during a run will have one on him. IMHO, if the big-ass dumb-as-bricks troll leaves his commlink online after connecting his eyes and gun to it, he deserves what he gets. :-) Any reasonable person can keep their smartlink-gun network from being vulnerable fairly easily. Its like turning on your cyberarm's wireless connection. There is no functionality of a cyberarm that the owner would want it to be online for. So turn it off. A smartlink system works jsut fine offline, so keep it that way. :-D |
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Dec 1 2005, 03:02 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 27-April 05 From: Summoning a spirit of the land Member No.: 7,362 |
I want a character who has a fat half-inch jack from their gun to their old datajack. I'm a sucker for the datajack for all reasons, what can I say? |
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Dec 1 2005, 03:18 PM
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#39
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
I don't think it will be all that uncommon to have your commlink networked during a gunfight. For one you can stay in communication with you fellow runners without having to shout over the gunfire with it. Also, if you hacker buddy does the trick in the opening fiction of the SR4 book where he hacks the cameras and sends targeting data to his team so that they know the location of guards behind cover, you'd need to be online. (This trick would require the smartlink to be connected to the active commlink in some way so you couldn't do the multiple commlink trick, except as an additional layer of security i suppose) And I am sure there are at least a few other reasons that I just can't think of right now. The ability to communicate securely with your fellow team members I would think is the most common reason to have an active commlink. Besides, unless you are going up against a gang of hackers its not like its going to incapacitate your whole team if this is happening. If you have a good firewall it's likely to take two or more Complex Actions from the hacker to access your commlink then another to mess with your smartlink. That is alot of time for you to shoot the hacker before hand if you're the gunbunny, especially since that can't really defend if they are in VR and with the extra passes of VR it would take them even longer to do it. |
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Dec 1 2005, 03:32 PM
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#40
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 |
I suppose there are reasons, but those are mostly for a team of shadowrunners to work together... and we were originally talking about the hacker being the shadowrunner, and the smart-gunned-enemy being his opponent (who may or may not be anotehr shadowrunner). Though, I'll admit, that most enemies I can think of, off the top of my head, who would happen to have all the smartlink stuff on them, are most likely shadowrunners, security forces, or some other "team" like enemy. Chances are we're not worried about out hacker messign with the smartlink system of a single lone-gunman... since that guy would already be outnumbered 4-to-1. Still, if on one hand I want to stay linked to my team so I can communicate with them without having to yell over gunfire... but on the other hand, I know that if I do, some hacker could gain control of my eyes... It might be worth it to use a simple action to turn the wireless off and talk to them over the regular radio, or through a seperate commlink. With two commlinks, you couldn't use the "sharing targetting data" trick they show in the book, but you're also not vulnerable to being fed fake data, either... so I suppose, like you said, its a matter of how confidant you are that the hacker hasn't had time to hack your system yet. And yeah, it would take the hacker some time to do it in AR, but his agent can work at near-VR speeds. |
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Dec 1 2005, 03:45 PM
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#41
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
One high-end commlink with an excellent firewall, set hidden, subscribed only to teammates. Get your team hacker to load an agent (IC) to guard dog against intrusions. Route your sensitive data through that.
At least one low-end commlink with a decent firewall, not hidden, dripping with IC and one Analyze+Edit agent whose job it is to manufacture fake streaming data (i.e.: your smartlink reporting that you have only two rounds left, your cyberware suggesting that you have delta Wired-3, or whatever is a fun ruse at the time). That's your decoy. It won't fool all hackers all of the time, but it'll make some of them waste valuable IPs. |
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Dec 1 2005, 06:36 PM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
I've seen this crop up in the creating a sammy thread, I'm just failing to see how anyone with half a brain gets anything but his commlink hacked.
DNI, Direct NUERAL input. Simply put means you can with a mental switch do anything with your stuff that's linked to your brain. You want to talk with your buddies during a firefight through your commlink? you think to your commlink and your subdermal mic and speakers to talk (and not with the rest of your ware) The worst situation there is the hacker hacks into your ears/mic. Since you can't hack a mind yet, unless some superfreaky npc, that's the end of concern. Specially since when you know it's hacked you can just DNI flick the commlink off, bam, dumpshock for the decker. |
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Dec 1 2005, 06:42 PM
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#43
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
If your comm is implanted, yeah. |
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Dec 1 2005, 07:01 PM
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#44
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
If I were a hacker and I was breaking into someone's implanted comlink the first thing I would do is disable the software that shuts it off. Then, if only ways he could dump me are destroy my equipment, move into a shielded area, or cut the comlink out of his flesh. Considering what I'd be doing to him in the mean time he's probably kill himself in an attempt to acomplish the third. If you want a DNI comlink get plain a datajack and an external comlink with a jackport. Then you can pull it out if your arms aren't paralyzed due to cyberlimb hacking, skillwire hacking, or RAS override hacking.
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Dec 1 2005, 09:01 PM
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#45
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
This long thread is finally starting to yield an answer to the original question:
What does the Hacker do when the shells start flying? Add to the list make sure the other guys don't have a hacker trying to do any of the things suggested previously to his team. |
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Dec 1 2005, 09:07 PM
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#46
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
most likely that feature is buildt into the very os of the comlink... hex edit on the fly maybe? not if its running from a read only rom enviroment ;) but then, does something like that exist in SR4? what happend to the IC that was able to damage the physical chips of cyberdecks? |
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Dec 1 2005, 09:28 PM
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#47
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
I forgot one. Uploading black IC into opposition comlinks. Being able to disable a comlink mentaly isn't as useful when the first indication that anything is wrong is your brain death.
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Dec 1 2005, 09:32 PM
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#48
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
now thats just nasty...
can one be affected by black hammer style attacks when using a simlink to run AR? maybe thats a reason to use all those other tools, BH screening :P |
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Dec 1 2005, 09:38 PM
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#49
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
The text for the Black Hammer program specifically says that it does nothing to AR users. It does stun damage to VR users using cold sim. And physical damage to VR users using hot sim.
[edit]Since Black IC is just that program bealt into IC, it wouldn't do any good to load it on most runners commlinks. At least not during the fire fight, it would be rather humorous if you killed the hacker, and the next day when you log into VR to play a game the Black IC kills you. But the only person who would be in VR during a fight would be a hacker.[/edit] |
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Dec 1 2005, 11:32 PM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
blackice doesn't come into play because the information from the matrix isn't bieng piped into the brain, it's bieng piped into things like the visual and audio displays and cyber linked to the AR system (commlink). That's why loading any ice into a piece of cyber won't do anything in combat, and likely never.
Running diagnostics you'd find you're suddenly using up 150mp more then before your last run, you'll open it with computer or a hot hacker before going into it yourself. What would be interesting in a fight to do as a hacker is to try and dump any saved data in cyber eyes/ears, whatevers to figure out who you are against (if you can get into thier cyber to begin with) The drek about skinlink hacking through handshakes is pure drek. No person is going to allow a stranger or have thier skinlink set up to accept foriegn hosts (the handshaker) to log onto thier system, let alone even have access, just look at like a isolated node from sr3. IE you need to be in a part of the system first that allows access. Unless you're going to play a "honey I shrank the kids" scenario this won't ever happen. |
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