Touch spells, *WHAM* You're it! Options

[Azralon]

[Nkari]

No, since striking in combat to do dmg is a complex action, and tossing a spell is a complex acton to.. choose either, not both..

[Azralon]

According to page 195, you can do both. In fact, you have to do both in order to deliver a touch spell.

[Nkari]

But they never mention doing dmg with that unarmed attack..

[Slacker]

With the RAW, you can interpret it to mean you can to normal melee damage along with the touch spell damage. But as you said yourself, that makes a pretty powerful attack.
As a GM I interpret it to mean that it just takes the same type of roll as an unarmed attack, but it requires too much concentration on casting the spell to attempt to do harm with said attack.
Every GM I have played with has made a similar ruling.

[Azralon]

For that matter, since shock gloves have a fixed damage code does that mean we should always get +2 to hit with them?

Since it doesn't matter if an amped cybertroll hits you with them or a 5-year-old human girl, apparently the level of impact required to trigger the shock is irrelevant as well as the sheer damaging force behind the blow itself.

[Nkari]

yes they should, since they are a touch based attack.. tho you could punch someone to do dmg, and get the secondary effect of the gloves but doing so would not grant you the +2 dice..

[Azralon]

[Antimuppet]

I think shock gloves should be handled differently from touch spells. You should be able to choose between shock-punching and shock-touching.

Shock punch somebody and you can increase the damage your punch does with extra hits. The shock damage is set however.

Shock touch and while you don't do any Strength-based damage, you do get to increase the shock effect with extra hits.

[Azralon]

Allowing shock gloves to do unarmed Str-based damage plus their own electrical damage sets a more solid precedent for double-whammy touch spells, though. :(

[Slacker]

Well there is a key difference between a touch spell and the shock delivered by shock gloves. The spell you have to cast (requiring at least some concentration to do so). The shock gloves automatically transfer the electric shock on contact without any, concentration other than the punch, necessary.

[Azralon]

Agreed; yet you can make an unarmed attack (which consists of a serious of moves and countermoves) while spellcasting. Without penalties. Heck, even with bonuses if you just want to tap the guy.

[BlackHat]

[Ophis]

I say allow a full normal attack with a touch spell. Only complication I'd add is wether the touch you get when an opponent blocks you would count as a touch for the spell.

This will probably depend on how Targetguy is defending, using dodge skill would leave you out of luck but the rest depends on the martial art being used, a subject I am not very knowledgeable about (but seek to know more, see below).

To keep things simple I would say no hit, no spell, but feel free to hang my opinions by their neck in discussion.

[Azralon]

I like that reasoning, BlackHat. Thanks, and I'll use it with regards to shock gloves and shock cyberhands.

Ophis: Yeah, I could see parrying as preventing appropriate contact, at least in an abstract sense.

[stevebugge]

I think that the way the touch spells were intended to work was that the touch was part of the casting, but rather than trying to create a whole new resisted range touch casting test and game mechanic, the designers simply chose to use two existing tests to keep it 'simple' (oops looks like they blew that test).

[PBTHHHHT]

Hmmm... I like the reasoning also Blackhat. But I guess I'd want to see how the shock gloves are designed. Are the gloves similar to those in the Ghost in the Shell series, where it's mainly on the knuckles and back of the hand where you have to score a solid hit before it triggers the capacitors to discharge into your opponent, or some other delivery type system?

As for the death touch spell, so it's a complex action. gotcha. Here's a thought once they come up with spell design rules for the fourth edition, what if someone designed a spell where you can sustain it, and makes it so that your hands become death touch hands (ala killing hands or shock hands). You have the minuses for sustaining it as you try your touch attempt.

[Azralon]

When they come up with spell design rules, a lot of folks are going to want to swap their current buff spells (Increase Reflexes, Increase Attribute, Improved Invisibility) with self-only versions for lower drain.

[nick012000]

Hey, I think you're all missing the worst possiblilty: Weapon foci shock gloves+ unarmed strike+death touch.

[Azralon]

Ow.

Making virginal shock gloves from scratch would be rough, but ow.

[spotlite]

Snip. Ignore me.

[PlatonicPimp]

[Azralon]

[stevebugge]

[PlatonicPimp]