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#51
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 ![]() |
Even if you could do this with magic...
Ultimately, if you're the GM you should do whatever you want in your game. In my game, I'd say that it would be theoretically possible, but practically speaking too difficult and expensive to make or to bond, and it smells too much like a munchkinizer. |
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#52
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 19-October 04 Member No.: 6,773 ![]() |
Monowhips arent actualy monomolecular, just realy thin. They call them that for marketing hype!
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#53
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 ![]() |
Which, if you recall, the reason foci go to the astral with you is that it has a aura. If you can't add anything to reduce a already almost impossible number to enchant to the monowire you can't have a whole aura, the wieght at the tip will have a aura that's not part of anything (and operating outside of the body's aura)
Everything in SR lore and design has ALWAYS indicated that the more highly processed the item, the more magic doesn't work with it. Saying it's something meant to be there or even approved of is just trying to validate your own dripping saliva of the thought of using something like this.
Yup, but you can't make a monowhip into a weapon focus and it be a monowhip, you're arguing something a bit different then I am. I've stated time and time again you lose any and all damage improvment of the monowhip, you have at the most a standard whip. But you ignore this and go based off of something different then the intent of the SR universe, Nigel findley would be rolling in his grave.
In sr2 and sr3 you went off the object resistance test to enchant, in sr4 a highly processed/technological item requires a threshold of 4 or greater to be affected by magic.
Please read my qoute before talking further, it's not about force of will attacks, it's in relation to the damage bonus that some tech stuff provided. It's saying if you have a weapon foci knife with a dikoted edge, you lose the bonus from the dikote against a spirit/astral form but the damage remains that of a knife, which doesn't contradict anything in the sr3 qoute.
a dikote knife in sr3 apparently doesn't ever have the ability to be technologically improved with a dikote edge or a monofilament edge or laser edge against even mundane targets, wow reading comprehension.
trying to fit a compound into a molecule. |
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#54
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 266 Joined: 16-April 02 From: DC Member No.: 2,605 ![]() |
You got my hopes up that there was something there. If you're refereing to an example of enchanting a sword off the self and saying that indicates weapons foci no longer need orichalcum, I'd say you're really reaching. You could enchant sword to be any other type of foci, there is no rule saying a sword has to be a weapon foci. You all must really want this very bad, to be that desperate. I'll agree that SR has alway had made it hard to influence high-tech gear with magic. In SR3, you definitely couldn't have one, however, there is nothing in the core SR4 book that would indicate you can't. But I'd still make my players wait for the expansion if they asked. |
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#55
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 ![]() |
This is assuming you're just using a single long line of carbon molecules. If it was this, it would have to be all single-bonds with hydrogen atoms bonded to the otherwise free electrons. This would make it a long, thin hydrocarbon atom, combustible and unstable. What's more realistic is to make it a long, 4-molecule thick tube made of buckminsterfullerine bond formations. This kind of technology actually exists, and could probably be formed around a long molecule-thick thread of orihalcum by the year 2070.
So, yeah. |
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#56
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 203 Joined: 18-November 05 Member No.: 7,978 ![]() |
I'm not sure why it would be any cheesier than say, a polearm built with an extendable haft. In fact that would be much worse. Not quite as concealable, but it is concealable anywhere that someone can take a pistol. Could arguably do much more damage as well as Strength becomes a factor. I don't see what is so implausible about it. As for the magical reinforcing, it's a thing called permanent spells. They do exist. As for compound, it is still a compound made up of molecules. On the molecular level, it wouldn't be much different. Instead of OOOOOOOOO - with O being Orichalcum it would be GSM etc etc for the composite bits. Not sure what the issue would be. Not really twinky either, there is much worse. This is nowhere near the vein of Synaptic Accelerator + Boosted Reflexes, or million nuyen cyber death machines, or any other number of twinkiness that you can get. |
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#57
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 ![]() |
So, since orichalcum is a magical material, and since magic often means physics are wonky, WHY can't the actual whip bit be made of monomolecular orichalcum?
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#58
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 ![]() |
because you can't manufacture orichalum = )
You could make a whip focus, or a whip made out of orichalum (as ridiculous as it sounds) but you can't make a monofilament whip focus is the only thing that's bieng argued = ) |
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#59
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Resident Legionnaire ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 ![]() |
I don't see what the big F-ing deal is. How is the monowhip focus any worse than the Troll with a "polearm" focus (or elf, on the astral)?
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#60
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 ![]() |
Because one is allowed in the rules, and also a monofilament can be hidden anywhere, second then someone with absolute crap stats, with one bound would be a killer in both realms.
Munchkinism. |
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#61
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Resident Legionnaire ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 ![]() |
So anyone who uses a weapon with a big damage code is automatically a munchkin?
It happens to be a really good weapon and has the availability to match. If they can get ahold of one and devote the prohibitively high resources to do it, why the hell not? What does it matter if they can be a tobacco-chewing asskicker in both realms? They paid to have access to that other realm. If the PC being able to inflict 10S is such a HUGE problem, then you better outlaw Machineguns an AV ammo too before the Troll sammie gets one. |
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#62
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Free Spirit ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,950 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 ![]() |
Those are the rules for enchanting any type of foci, including weapon foci.
Ok, I looked up your quote because I assumed you were talking about the rules regarding force of will attacks.
First, that pertains to a force of will attack, just as everyone has been pointing out. Second, according to this quote, if a mundane used a monowhip to combat the spirit, the monowhip would do its base damage. Third, this is from SR2 and was updated in SR3 to
Fourth, this in no way prohibits the use of technological enhancements incorporated in weapon foci or negate technological bonuses when using weapon foci or when using them in conjunction with mundane weapons when not involved in a Willpower attack. (The Willpower attack has special rules. The spirit does not get to use Combat Pool and the attack bypasses armor power, likewise the character gets no Combat Pool or weapon bonuses.) Fifth, none of this pertains to weapon foci. |
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#63
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 ![]() |
No anyone who does what's bieng attempted here is. With this set up, a anemic couch potatoe that spent no points in any physical or mental attributes could spend 15pts to be a magician and another 3 pts on resources to get 15k to get a lv 1 weapon foci in this (and 3k for it bieng monofilament whip) 1pt to bind it. Grats, you're now a astral projecting/physical combat deadly guy for only 18pts. The problem with the whip, is it does a great amount of damage and is independent of the users own stats. a "asskicker" in both realms using the rules, would require alot more then a mere 18pts + whatever else you spent on the character. |
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#64
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Free Spirit ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,950 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 ![]() |
With no skill and glitch, he will not last long.
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#65
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 ![]() |
yeah, but you're missing the whole point of the excercise.
and with the given example, he still has 380something points to spend on the character. |
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#66
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 ![]() |
Liper, the character still has to purchase an exotic weapon skill, and put some into agility if they want to take advantage of it....And even if they do as you say, they will still have crappy attributes come back and haunt them I am sure.
I don't see what the problem is with a person doing that really, there are definate flaws with using a monowhip, and benefits to match. |
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#67
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 ![]() |
The only problem is everything in the SR universe would say you can't make a character with a monowhip weapon foci and it be as effective as a regular monowhip, and to boot, go into the astral as a monowhips damage.
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#68
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 ![]() |
I just picture this character with no points in attributes like you mentioned, getting his whip ripped from his hand and being shit out of luck. He'd have no strength or unarmed abilitys to help him then. He'd be toast....
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#69
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 ![]() |
:vegm: From reading some of these posts I figure I should not even think about asking about the damage and armor piercing properties of Bucky-Ball Shot. :)
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#70
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 ![]() |
squinky, you like the other poster missed the excercise, for less then 5% of your build points you could make a asset that was a monster in melee and astral combat.
The said character would of course use the remainder of his build points. |
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#71
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 ![]() |
It depends on whether you have them Dikoted, and if they aren't Dikoted whether they are filled with Green Ring-14 or Kryptonite. |
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#72
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 ![]() |
making rounds like that at least aren't against the rules =p
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#73
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Free Spirit ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,950 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 ![]() |
Not really, you do not have a point other than you miss/ignore other game balance mechanics.
This seems to be a major part of the problem. Other weapons do damage independant of the users attributes and are easier on his skill points than a monowhip which requires that specific skill and is useless for anything else. |
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#74
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 ![]() |
but do they do the same damage on the astral? god some of you posters either lack reading comprehension, are oblivious to facts, or just want to validate munchkinism despite rules.
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#75
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 19-October 04 Member No.: 6,773 ![]() |
For the love of all thats holy! Monowhips ARE NOT monomolecular. Its like cheese wire. Its Cheese wire made out of some tough material so it wont break with a weight attatched. The weapon has been described in several shadowrun book sas being not realy a single molocule chain.
Also, I do believe in the enchanting rules it states you can enchant ANYTHING, you can buy a cyberdeck off the shelf, go get yourself some radicals, and enchant that sumbitch into a weapon focus. Will it be effective? No! Will it work? Yes! Do you need any magical metals? No! They just help. /rant off |
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