if you don't cheat you an't trying

if you don't cheat you an't trying

Straight Razor View Member Profile	Dec 5 2005, 05:06 PM Post #1
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 332 Joined: 19-September 05 From: Nashville, Tn Member No.: 7,761	Ok... I was sitting in my Zoology lecture yesterday, and finals are comeing up soon. Being Add and all i thought to SR and relised something. For less than 1 ess, and not too much cash, i could Ace all my tests. All i need is, 100MP memory, math processor, cyber-eyes(immage display, camera), and a data-jack Now the question is who do schools stop this in the 6th world

stevebugge View Member Profile	Dec 5 2005, 05:12 PM Post #2
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996	Probably absolutely nothing. Memorization is probably no longer a major work related skill, so rather than encourage meorization they probably gear the tests more towards testing how quickly you can find and sort relevant information from electronic resources. Advanced classes may force you to synthesize a short coherent answer from multiple sources.

SL James View Member Profile	Dec 5 2005, 05:27 PM Post #3
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473	In spite of the flavor bullshit indicating mass illiteracy (which goes against the fact that there has never been as much literacy in the world as there is today) written tests and tests based on problem-solving would likely be on the rise. Or they can just use datalocks and replicate the use of Securexam to let people take tests on their laptops without being able to access any of their other programs. It's a novel idea, but it may just be crazy enough to work.

Valentinew View Member Profile	Dec 5 2005, 06:48 PM Post #4
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 207 Joined: 3-November 05 From: KCMO Member No.: 7,922	My guess is that the answer would depend on the class. Especially in college. As tech-advanced as this society is, chances are datalocks & the like are probably readily accessible to the accredited schools. There is also what's left of honor systems. At the University of Missouri-Rolla (not MIT, but at least an engineering/sciences school), the lower level classes, where you were learning basics, no calculators were allowed. The next level did not allow plotting or programmable calculators. The next tier of classes allowed plotting, but not programmable. And so on..... I would assume that a similar system would be used for 2070....

mfb View Member Profile	Dec 5 2005, 07:41 PM Post #5
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	alternatively, the schools could just decide that the students ought to use the tools available to them, and allow cybernetic enhancements on tests. given the glut of readily-accessible data, i can see a hugely decreased emphasis on 'learning' anyway, in the memorizing-stuff sense. good schools would focus on teaching things that can't be stored in headware memory, and bad schools wouldn't attract clientel rich enough to afford cybernetic enhancements anyway.

bclements View Member Profile	Dec 5 2005, 07:48 PM Post #6
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,507 Joined: 27-January 05 From: ...and I'm all out of bubblegum Member No.: 7,021	^^ that's a good overview of things as they are now. Most of the higher level classes with non-braindead profs now don't really emphisize memorization. Instead, they give a problem solving situtation, and tell you the parameters to solve it in. More a test of conceptual thinking skill than of rote memorization. Although, if any class ever cried out for headware memory, it's Organic Chemistry (says a former Biology major :) ) EDIT: and just wait till you get to Verterbrate Histology. You'll want to save some essence for some good quality Skillwires ;)

Gerald Fitzgeral... Gerald Fitzgerald View Member Profile	Dec 5 2005, 08:01 PM Post #7
Target Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 17-November 05 Member No.: 7,977	All a cheater does is cheat himself out of one thing: an education! lol Seriously though, I always wanted to get a tatoo of information which was going to be on a test. You can have a tatoo for anything, claiming you love the subject and wanted it on your body. I can't imagine what kind of situation that would put a school in.

Fix-it View Member Profile	Dec 5 2005, 09:08 PM Post #8
Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364	in an electrical engineering school right now, and I have been considering getting myself one of these... but yeah. I'm sure cheating is still takes some effort in the 6th world. I'm sure it might be policy in higher instituitions to have jackstoppers that disable most cyberwear that could be used for cheating.

SL James

Dec 5 2005, 09:09 PM

Post #9

Shadowrun Setting Nerd

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QUOTE (Gerald Fitzgerald)

All a cheater does is cheat himself out of one thing: an education! lol

HAHAHAHA

Oh, man. That's hilarious. Like school is for education anymore.

QUOTE

Seriously though, I always wanted to get a tatoo of information which was going to be on a test. You can have a tatoo for anything, claiming you love the subject and wanted it on your body. I can't imagine what kind of situation that would put a school in.

Yeah, Prison Break's a neat show...

Critias View Member Profile	Dec 5 2005, 09:33 PM Post #10
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714	A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt; it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years. And it sits in a pretty frame. That's about it.

bclements

Dec 5 2005, 09:42 PM

Post #11

Shooting Target

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QUOTE (Critias)

A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt; it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years. And it sits in a pretty frame. That's about it.

Possibly. I more view it as the ability to sift through bullshit, sit through manditory meetings and work in groups without killing people than just a receipt, but to each his own.

Adarael View Member Profile	Dec 5 2005, 11:04 PM Post #12
Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566	Amen to bclements's comment. The receipt thing is partially true, but mostly bullshit. Nothing more than a receipt? Maybe in fields like mine (liberal arts) that's the case, but it's a necessary receipt, too. Wanna get a job as a professor? Get yourself a master's, at minimum. Wanna get a job as an engineer for a company? Hope you've gone to school. Wanna be a research physicist without a degree? Hope you're a prodigy, man. School really does teach you things, surprising as that is. It's just that in many majors, you don't need to go to school for nearly as long as you do, for the type of degree you get.

caramel frappucc... caramel frappuccino View Member Profile	Dec 5 2005, 11:51 PM Post #13
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 177 Joined: 21-October 05 From: In a Starbucks™ café near you Member No.: 7,870	School teaches you things if you want it to. If you don't...well, then it doesn't.

SL James

Dec 5 2005, 11:59 PM

Post #14

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QUOTE (bclements @ Dec 5 2005, 03:42 PM)

QUOTE (Critias @ Dec 5 2005, 03:33 PM)

A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt; it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years. And it sits in a pretty frame. That's about it.

Possibly. I more view it as the ability to sift through bullshit, sit through manditory meetings and work in groups without killing people than just a receipt, but to each his own.

I didn't spend $140,000 to learn something they taught us in kindegarten.

However, I cannot refute Critias' point. I feel like I bought an overpriced key to ... the twilight zone for all I know. It's a receipt that shows that I like a couple thousand other people who are ostensibly intelligent are, instead, really fucking stupid for wasting the money.

I'd have been better off taking out the money from a bank and putting it on red at an Indian casino, or on Papa's Mustache in the third.

Adarael View Member Profile	Dec 6 2005, 12:03 AM Post #15
Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566	I have to ask what you majored in... and what level of degree you have... My curiosity, it knows no bounds.

hyzmarca View Member Profile	Dec 6 2005, 12:30 AM Post #16
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456	I pressume that it depends on the instructor. Some will be very uptight about the use of cyber, time limits, and other constraints. Others will just hand you a test on Friday and tell you to turn it in monday with no supervision whatsoever.

bclements

Dec 6 2005, 12:48 AM

Post #17

Shooting Target

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QUOTE (SL James @ Dec 5 2005, 05:59 PM)

QUOTE (bclements @ Dec 5 2005, 03:42 PM)

QUOTE (Critias @ Dec 5 2005, 03:33 PM)

A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt; it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years. And it sits in a pretty frame. That's about it.

Possibly. I more view it as the ability to sift through bullshit, sit through manditory meetings and work in groups without killing people than just a receipt, but to each his own.

I didn't spend $140,000 to learn something they taught us in kindegarten.

However, I cannot refute Critias' point. I feel like I bought an overpriced key to ... the twilight zone for all I know. It's a receipt that shows that I like a couple thousand other people who are ostensibly intelligent are, instead, really fucking stupid for wasting the money.

I'd have been better off taking out the money from a bank and putting it on red at an Indian casino, or on Papa's Mustache in the third.

But hey, you got that all important (to HR managers at least) Bacholor's Degree! :D

I can't really argue this too much, because for all but my last few classes, it was a total breeze (and this for a MIS degree). Hard science degrees (and I'm including CompSci in this for the purposes of this argument) damn near demand a degree of some type, simply for the breadth of knowldege that a person probably wouldn't have without that degree. Liberal Arts degrees (Social Work specifically, only beacuse I know more than a bit about it) are similar, in that they give a wide range of knowledge that one would simply not be able to prove without a degree. Certain business degrees (Accounting, Finance, HR to some point) are similar. Mine? I was literaly sleeping or teaching the teachers at more than a few points. And I got a 3.8. I would have had a 4.0 had I not failed Organic Chem.

My point is that a university education tends to teach you more than just the knowledge that you learn in your classes. You, like me, can probably name more than a few classes that you did all of the work in your group. And you can also say that you slept for more than your share. You probably also learned to deal with people a shit ton different than you, and to deal with professors that had really unrealistic expectations of the work product you did based on their guidance. And got thru it, with the paper to prove it.

And I really hope you didn't spend 140 large on that, unless you graduated from Yale or another Ivy League school. In which case, you still didn't get jipped.

SL James

Dec 6 2005, 01:05 AM

Post #18

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If I went to one of the evil eight, I'd be able to hire someone to berate people on DS all day for me.

QUOTE (Adarael)

I have to ask what you majored in... and what level of degree you have...
My curiosity, it knows no bounds.

And shall continue to be without bounds.

caramel frappucc...

Dec 6 2005, 01:07 AM

Post #19

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QUOTE (bclements)

I was literaly sleeping or teaching the teachers at more than a few points.

I was about to respond when I realized that I completely misread that sentence.

bclements

Dec 6 2005, 01:14 AM

Post #20

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QUOTE (caramel frappuccino)

QUOTE (bclements)

I was literaly sleeping or teaching the teachers at more than a few points.

I was about to respond when I realized that I completely misread that sentence.

Really, a normal person could probably teach Org. Management while sleeping. And get tenure! :)

Kagetenshi

Dec 6 2005, 02:01 AM

Post #21

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QUOTE (bclements @ Dec 5 2005, 08:14 PM)

Really, a normal person could probably teach Org. Management while sleeping. And get tenure! :)

Not quite what he meant, methinks.

~J

Dog

Dec 6 2005, 02:10 AM

Post #22

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QUOTE (caramel frappuccino)

School teaches you things if you want it to. If you don't...well, then it doesn't.

What you learn frequently has nothing to do with the subject material, I've found.

Re. original topic: aren't a lot of (most?) exams open book to some degree anyway?

"Never let school get in the way of your education." said an ex g/f of mine. But then, she's working on her second degree. Whatever. I go to school for recreation.

Chibu

Dec 6 2005, 09:35 AM

Post #23

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QUOTE (hyzmarca)

Others will just hand you a test on Friday and tell you to turn it in monday with no supervision whatsoever.

Speaking of which, my Data Structures and Algorithms Final that i got today is due on wednesday. I should start that soon. =\

nick012000

Dec 6 2005, 10:17 AM

Post #24

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QUOTE (SL James)

QUOTE (bclements @ Dec 5 2005, 03:42 PM)

QUOTE (Critias @ Dec 5 2005, 03:33 PM)

A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt; it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years. And it sits in a pretty frame. That's about it.

Possibly. I more view it as the ability to sift through bullshit, sit through manditory meetings and work in groups without killing people than just a receipt, but to each his own.

I didn't spend $140,000 to learn something they taught us in kindegarten.

However, I cannot refute Critias' point. I feel like I bought an overpriced key to ... the twilight zone for all I know. It's a receipt that shows that I like a couple thousand other people who are ostensibly intelligent are, instead, really fucking stupid for wasting the money.

I'd have been better off taking out the money from a bank and putting it on red at an Indian casino, or on Papa's Mustache in the third.

Well, in my case, the degree will be a peice of paper saying that I can design robots that actually work.

toturi View Member Profile	Dec 6 2005, 10:37 AM Post #25
Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187	Not a single [expletive-deleted] open-[expletive-deleted]-book [expletive-deleted] exam in my civil engineering course. And now I know why, when a [expletive deleted] client asks whether a column/beam/slab can be altered, he doesn't want to hear "Let me fire up the computer program and let's see." All the rest of the non-hard science courses I took to get the credits, I could have gotten at A Levels.

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