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> if you don't cheat you an't trying
Straight Razor
post Dec 5 2005, 05:06 PM
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Ok... I was sitting in my Zoology lecture yesterday, and finals are comeing up soon.
Being Add and all i thought to SR and relised something. For less than 1 ess, and not too much cash, i could Ace all my tests.
All i need is, 100MP memory, math processor, cyber-eyes(immage display, camera), and a data-jack
Now the question is who do schools stop this in the 6th world
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stevebugge
post Dec 5 2005, 05:12 PM
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Probably absolutely nothing. Memorization is probably no longer a major work related skill, so rather than encourage meorization they probably gear the tests more towards testing how quickly you can find and sort relevant information from electronic resources. Advanced classes may force you to synthesize a short coherent answer from multiple sources.
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SL James
post Dec 5 2005, 05:27 PM
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In spite of the flavor bullshit indicating mass illiteracy (which goes against the fact that there has never been as much literacy in the world as there is today) written tests and tests based on problem-solving would likely be on the rise.

Or they can just use datalocks and replicate the use of Securexam to let people take tests on their laptops without being able to access any of their other programs. It's a novel idea, but it may just be crazy enough to work.
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Valentinew
post Dec 5 2005, 06:48 PM
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My guess is that the answer would depend on the class. Especially in college.

As tech-advanced as this society is, chances are datalocks & the like are probably readily accessible to the accredited schools. There is also what's left of honor systems.

At the University of Missouri-Rolla (not MIT, but at least an engineering/sciences school), the lower level classes, where you were learning basics, no calculators were allowed. The next level did not allow plotting or programmable calculators. The next tier of classes allowed plotting, but not programmable. And so on.....

I would assume that a similar system would be used for 2070....
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mfb
post Dec 5 2005, 07:41 PM
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alternatively, the schools could just decide that the students ought to use the tools available to them, and allow cybernetic enhancements on tests. given the glut of readily-accessible data, i can see a hugely decreased emphasis on 'learning' anyway, in the memorizing-stuff sense. good schools would focus on teaching things that can't be stored in headware memory, and bad schools wouldn't attract clientel rich enough to afford cybernetic enhancements anyway.
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bclements
post Dec 5 2005, 07:48 PM
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^^ that's a good overview of things as they are now. Most of the higher level classes with non-braindead profs now don't really emphisize memorization. Instead, they give a problem solving situtation, and tell you the parameters to solve it in. More a test of conceptual thinking skill than of rote memorization.

Although, if any class ever cried out for headware memory, it's Organic Chemistry (says a former Biology major :) )

EDIT: and just wait till you get to Verterbrate Histology. You'll want to save some essence for some good quality Skillwires ;)
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Gerald Fitzgeral...
post Dec 5 2005, 08:01 PM
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All a cheater does is cheat himself out of one thing: an education! lol

Seriously though, I always wanted to get a tatoo of information which was going to be on a test. You can have a tatoo for anything, claiming you love the subject and wanted it on your body. I can't imagine what kind of situation that would put a school in.
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Fix-it
post Dec 5 2005, 09:08 PM
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in an electrical engineering school right now, and I have been considering getting myself one of these...

but yeah. I'm sure cheating is still takes some effort in the 6th world.

I'm sure it might be policy in higher instituitions to have jackstoppers that disable most cyberwear that could be used for cheating.
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SL James
post Dec 5 2005, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Gerald Fitzgerald)
All a cheater does is cheat himself out of one thing: an education!  lol

HAHAHAHA

Oh, man. That's hilarious. Like school is for education anymore.

QUOTE

Seriously though, I always wanted to get a tatoo of information which was going to be on a test.  You can have a tatoo for anything, claiming you love the subject and wanted it on your body.  I can't imagine what kind of situation that would put a school in.

Yeah, Prison Break's a neat show...
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Critias
post Dec 5 2005, 09:33 PM
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A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt; it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years. And it sits in a pretty frame. That's about it.
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bclements
post Dec 5 2005, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (Critias)
A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt; it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years. And it sits in a pretty frame. That's about it.

Possibly. I more view it as the ability to sift through bullshit, sit through manditory meetings and work in groups without killing people than just a receipt, but to each his own.
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Adarael
post Dec 5 2005, 11:04 PM
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Amen to bclements's comment.

The receipt thing is partially true, but mostly bullshit. Nothing more than a receipt? Maybe in fields like mine (liberal arts) that's the case, but it's a necessary receipt, too. Wanna get a job as a professor? Get yourself a master's, at minimum. Wanna get a job as an engineer for a company? Hope you've gone to school. Wanna be a research physicist without a degree? Hope you're a prodigy, man.

School really does teach you things, surprising as that is. It's just that in many majors, you don't need to go to school for nearly as long as you do, for the type of degree you get.
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caramel frappucc...
post Dec 5 2005, 11:51 PM
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School teaches you things if you want it to. If you don't...well, then it doesn't.
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SL James
post Dec 5 2005, 11:59 PM
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QUOTE (bclements @ Dec 5 2005, 03:42 PM)
QUOTE (Critias @ Dec 5 2005, 03:33 PM)
A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt;  it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years.  And it sits in a pretty frame.  That's about it.

Possibly. I more view it as the ability to sift through bullshit, sit through manditory meetings and work in groups without killing people than just a receipt, but to each his own.

I didn't spend $140,000 to learn something they taught us in kindegarten.

However, I cannot refute Critias' point. I feel like I bought an overpriced key to ... the twilight zone for all I know. It's a receipt that shows that I like a couple thousand other people who are ostensibly intelligent are, instead, really fucking stupid for wasting the money.

I'd have been better off taking out the money from a bank and putting it on red at an Indian casino, or on Papa's Mustache in the third.
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Adarael
post Dec 6 2005, 12:03 AM
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I have to ask what you majored in... and what level of degree you have...
My curiosity, it knows no bounds.
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hyzmarca
post Dec 6 2005, 12:30 AM
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I pressume that it depends on the instructor. Some will be very uptight about the use of cyber, time limits, and other constraints. Others will just hand you a test on Friday and tell you to turn it in monday with no supervision whatsoever.
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bclements
post Dec 6 2005, 12:48 AM
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QUOTE (SL James @ Dec 5 2005, 05:59 PM)
QUOTE (bclements @ Dec 5 2005, 03:42 PM)
QUOTE (Critias @ Dec 5 2005, 03:33 PM)
A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt;  it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years.  And it sits in a pretty frame.  That's about it.

Possibly. I more view it as the ability to sift through bullshit, sit through manditory meetings and work in groups without killing people than just a receipt, but to each his own.

I didn't spend $140,000 to learn something they taught us in kindegarten.

However, I cannot refute Critias' point. I feel like I bought an overpriced key to ... the twilight zone for all I know. It's a receipt that shows that I like a couple thousand other people who are ostensibly intelligent are, instead, really fucking stupid for wasting the money.

I'd have been better off taking out the money from a bank and putting it on red at an Indian casino, or on Papa's Mustache in the third.

But hey, you got that all important (to HR managers at least) Bacholor's Degree! :D

I can't really argue this too much, because for all but my last few classes, it was a total breeze (and this for a MIS degree). Hard science degrees (and I'm including CompSci in this for the purposes of this argument) damn near demand a degree of some type, simply for the breadth of knowldege that a person probably wouldn't have without that degree. Liberal Arts degrees (Social Work specifically, only beacuse I know more than a bit about it) are similar, in that they give a wide range of knowledge that one would simply not be able to prove without a degree. Certain business degrees (Accounting, Finance, HR to some point) are similar. Mine? I was literaly sleeping or teaching the teachers at more than a few points. And I got a 3.8. I would have had a 4.0 had I not failed Organic Chem.

My point is that a university education tends to teach you more than just the knowledge that you learn in your classes. You, like me, can probably name more than a few classes that you did all of the work in your group. And you can also say that you slept for more than your share. You probably also learned to deal with people a shit ton different than you, and to deal with professors that had really unrealistic expectations of the work product you did based on their guidance. And got thru it, with the paper to prove it.

And I really hope you didn't spend 140 large on that, unless you graduated from Yale or another Ivy League school. In which case, you still didn't get jipped.
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SL James
post Dec 6 2005, 01:05 AM
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If I went to one of the evil eight, I'd be able to hire someone to berate people on DS all day for me.

QUOTE (Adarael)
I have to ask what you majored in... and what level of degree you have...
My curiosity, it knows no bounds.

And shall continue to be without bounds.
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caramel frappucc...
post Dec 6 2005, 01:07 AM
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QUOTE (bclements)
I was literaly sleeping or teaching the teachers at more than a few points.

I was about to respond when I realized that I completely misread that sentence.
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bclements
post Dec 6 2005, 01:14 AM
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QUOTE (caramel frappuccino)
QUOTE (bclements)
I was literaly sleeping or teaching the teachers at more than a few points.

I was about to respond when I realized that I completely misread that sentence.

Really, a normal person could probably teach Org. Management while sleeping. And get tenure! :)
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Kagetenshi
post Dec 6 2005, 02:01 AM
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QUOTE (bclements @ Dec 5 2005, 08:14 PM)
Really, a normal person could probably teach Org. Management while sleeping. And get tenure! :)

Not quite what he meant, methinks.

~J
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Dog
post Dec 6 2005, 02:10 AM
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QUOTE (caramel frappuccino)
School teaches you things if you want it to. If you don't...well, then it doesn't.

What you learn frequently has nothing to do with the subject material, I've found.

Re. original topic: aren't a lot of (most?) exams open book to some degree anyway?

"Never let school get in the way of your education." said an ex g/f of mine. But then, she's working on her second degree. Whatever. I go to school for recreation.
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Chibu
post Dec 6 2005, 09:35 AM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Others will just hand you a test on Friday and tell you to turn it in monday with no supervision whatsoever.

Speaking of which, my Data Structures and Algorithms Final that i got today is due on wednesday. I should start that soon. =\
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nick012000
post Dec 6 2005, 10:17 AM
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QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (bclements @ Dec 5 2005, 03:42 PM)
QUOTE (Critias @ Dec 5 2005, 03:33 PM)
A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt;  it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years.  And it sits in a pretty frame.  That's about it.

Possibly. I more view it as the ability to sift through bullshit, sit through manditory meetings and work in groups without killing people than just a receipt, but to each his own.

I didn't spend $140,000 to learn something they taught us in kindegarten.

However, I cannot refute Critias' point. I feel like I bought an overpriced key to ... the twilight zone for all I know. It's a receipt that shows that I like a couple thousand other people who are ostensibly intelligent are, instead, really fucking stupid for wasting the money.

I'd have been better off taking out the money from a bank and putting it on red at an Indian casino, or on Papa's Mustache in the third.

Well, in my case, the degree will be a peice of paper saying that I can design robots that actually work.
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toturi
post Dec 6 2005, 10:37 AM
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Not a single [expletive-deleted] open-[expletive-deleted]-book [expletive-deleted] exam in my civil engineering course. And now I know why, when a [expletive deleted] client asks whether a column/beam/slab can be altered, he doesn't want to hear "Let me fire up the computer program and let's see."

All the rest of the non-hard science courses I took to get the credits, I could have gotten at A Levels.
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