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Straight Razor
Ok... I was sitting in my Zoology lecture yesterday, and finals are comeing up soon.
Being Add and all i thought to SR and relised something. For less than 1 ess, and not too much cash, i could Ace all my tests.
All i need is, 100MP memory, math processor, cyber-eyes(immage display, camera), and a data-jack
Now the question is who do schools stop this in the 6th world
stevebugge
Probably absolutely nothing. Memorization is probably no longer a major work related skill, so rather than encourage meorization they probably gear the tests more towards testing how quickly you can find and sort relevant information from electronic resources. Advanced classes may force you to synthesize a short coherent answer from multiple sources.
SL James
In spite of the flavor bullshit indicating mass illiteracy (which goes against the fact that there has never been as much literacy in the world as there is today) written tests and tests based on problem-solving would likely be on the rise.

Or they can just use datalocks and replicate the use of Securexam to let people take tests on their laptops without being able to access any of their other programs. It's a novel idea, but it may just be crazy enough to work.
Valentinew
My guess is that the answer would depend on the class. Especially in college.

As tech-advanced as this society is, chances are datalocks & the like are probably readily accessible to the accredited schools. There is also what's left of honor systems.

At the University of Missouri-Rolla (not MIT, but at least an engineering/sciences school), the lower level classes, where you were learning basics, no calculators were allowed. The next level did not allow plotting or programmable calculators. The next tier of classes allowed plotting, but not programmable. And so on.....

I would assume that a similar system would be used for 2070....
mfb
alternatively, the schools could just decide that the students ought to use the tools available to them, and allow cybernetic enhancements on tests. given the glut of readily-accessible data, i can see a hugely decreased emphasis on 'learning' anyway, in the memorizing-stuff sense. good schools would focus on teaching things that can't be stored in headware memory, and bad schools wouldn't attract clientel rich enough to afford cybernetic enhancements anyway.
bclements
^^ that's a good overview of things as they are now. Most of the higher level classes with non-braindead profs now don't really emphisize memorization. Instead, they give a problem solving situtation, and tell you the parameters to solve it in. More a test of conceptual thinking skill than of rote memorization.

Although, if any class ever cried out for headware memory, it's Organic Chemistry (says a former Biology major smile.gif )

EDIT: and just wait till you get to Verterbrate Histology. You'll want to save some essence for some good quality Skillwires wink.gif
Gerald Fitzgerald
All a cheater does is cheat himself out of one thing: an education! lol

Seriously though, I always wanted to get a tatoo of information which was going to be on a test. You can have a tatoo for anything, claiming you love the subject and wanted it on your body. I can't imagine what kind of situation that would put a school in.
Fix-it
in an electrical engineering school right now, and I have been considering getting myself one of these...

but yeah. I'm sure cheating is still takes some effort in the 6th world.

I'm sure it might be policy in higher instituitions to have jackstoppers that disable most cyberwear that could be used for cheating.
SL James
QUOTE (Gerald Fitzgerald)
All a cheater does is cheat himself out of one thing: an education!  lol

HAHAHAHA

Oh, man. That's hilarious. Like school is for education anymore.

QUOTE

Seriously though, I always wanted to get a tatoo of information which was going to be on a test.  You can have a tatoo for anything, claiming you love the subject and wanted it on your body.  I can't imagine what kind of situation that would put a school in.

Yeah, Prison Break's a neat show...
Critias
A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt; it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years. And it sits in a pretty frame. That's about it.
bclements
QUOTE (Critias)
A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt; it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years. And it sits in a pretty frame. That's about it.

Possibly. I more view it as the ability to sift through bullshit, sit through manditory meetings and work in groups without killing people than just a receipt, but to each his own.
Adarael
Amen to bclements's comment.

The receipt thing is partially true, but mostly bullshit. Nothing more than a receipt? Maybe in fields like mine (liberal arts) that's the case, but it's a necessary receipt, too. Wanna get a job as a professor? Get yourself a master's, at minimum. Wanna get a job as an engineer for a company? Hope you've gone to school. Wanna be a research physicist without a degree? Hope you're a prodigy, man.

School really does teach you things, surprising as that is. It's just that in many majors, you don't need to go to school for nearly as long as you do, for the type of degree you get.
caramel frappuccino
School teaches you things if you want it to. If you don't...well, then it doesn't.
SL James
QUOTE (bclements @ Dec 5 2005, 03:42 PM)
QUOTE (Critias @ Dec 5 2005, 03:33 PM)
A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt;  it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years.  And it sits in a pretty frame.  That's about it.

Possibly. I more view it as the ability to sift through bullshit, sit through manditory meetings and work in groups without killing people than just a receipt, but to each his own.

I didn't spend $140,000 to learn something they taught us in kindegarten.

However, I cannot refute Critias' point. I feel like I bought an overpriced key to ... the twilight zone for all I know. It's a receipt that shows that I like a couple thousand other people who are ostensibly intelligent are, instead, really fucking stupid for wasting the money.

I'd have been better off taking out the money from a bank and putting it on red at an Indian casino, or on Papa's Mustache in the third.
Adarael
I have to ask what you majored in... and what level of degree you have...
My curiosity, it knows no bounds.
hyzmarca
I pressume that it depends on the instructor. Some will be very uptight about the use of cyber, time limits, and other constraints. Others will just hand you a test on Friday and tell you to turn it in monday with no supervision whatsoever.
bclements
QUOTE (SL James @ Dec 5 2005, 05:59 PM)
QUOTE (bclements @ Dec 5 2005, 03:42 PM)
QUOTE (Critias @ Dec 5 2005, 03:33 PM)
A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt; it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years. And it sits in a pretty frame. That's about it.

Possibly. I more view it as the ability to sift through bullshit, sit through manditory meetings and work in groups without killing people than just a receipt, but to each his own.

I didn't spend $140,000 to learn something they taught us in kindegarten.

However, I cannot refute Critias' point. I feel like I bought an overpriced key to ... the twilight zone for all I know. It's a receipt that shows that I like a couple thousand other people who are ostensibly intelligent are, instead, really fucking stupid for wasting the money.

I'd have been better off taking out the money from a bank and putting it on red at an Indian casino, or on Papa's Mustache in the third.

But hey, you got that all important (to HR managers at least) Bacholor's Degree! biggrin.gif

I can't really argue this too much, because for all but my last few classes, it was a total breeze (and this for a MIS degree). Hard science degrees (and I'm including CompSci in this for the purposes of this argument) damn near demand a degree of some type, simply for the breadth of knowldege that a person probably wouldn't have without that degree. Liberal Arts degrees (Social Work specifically, only beacuse I know more than a bit about it) are similar, in that they give a wide range of knowledge that one would simply not be able to prove without a degree. Certain business degrees (Accounting, Finance, HR to some point) are similar. Mine? I was literaly sleeping or teaching the teachers at more than a few points. And I got a 3.8. I would have had a 4.0 had I not failed Organic Chem.

My point is that a university education tends to teach you more than just the knowledge that you learn in your classes. You, like me, can probably name more than a few classes that you did all of the work in your group. And you can also say that you slept for more than your share. You probably also learned to deal with people a shit ton different than you, and to deal with professors that had really unrealistic expectations of the work product you did based on their guidance. And got thru it, with the paper to prove it.

And I really hope you didn't spend 140 large on that, unless you graduated from Yale or another Ivy League school. In which case, you still didn't get jipped.
SL James
If I went to one of the evil eight, I'd be able to hire someone to berate people on DS all day for me.

QUOTE (Adarael)
I have to ask what you majored in... and what level of degree you have...
My curiosity, it knows no bounds.

And shall continue to be without bounds.
caramel frappuccino
QUOTE (bclements)
I was literaly sleeping or teaching the teachers at more than a few points.

I was about to respond when I realized that I completely misread that sentence.
bclements
QUOTE (caramel frappuccino)
QUOTE (bclements)
I was literaly sleeping or teaching the teachers at more than a few points.

I was about to respond when I realized that I completely misread that sentence.

Really, a normal person could probably teach Org. Management while sleeping. And get tenure! smile.gif
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (bclements @ Dec 5 2005, 08:14 PM)
Really, a normal person could probably teach Org. Management while sleeping. And get tenure! smile.gif

Not quite what he meant, methinks.

~J
Dog
QUOTE (caramel frappuccino)
School teaches you things if you want it to. If you don't...well, then it doesn't.

What you learn frequently has nothing to do with the subject material, I've found.

Re. original topic: aren't a lot of (most?) exams open book to some degree anyway?

"Never let school get in the way of your education." said an ex g/f of mine. But then, she's working on her second degree. Whatever. I go to school for recreation.
Chibu
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Others will just hand you a test on Friday and tell you to turn it in monday with no supervision whatsoever.

Speaking of which, my Data Structures and Algorithms Final that i got today is due on wednesday. I should start that soon. =\
nick012000
QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (bclements @ Dec 5 2005, 03:42 PM)
QUOTE (Critias @ Dec 5 2005, 03:33 PM)
A college diploma is nothing more than a receipt; it tells prospective employers where all your money and time went, for a few years. And it sits in a pretty frame. That's about it.

Possibly. I more view it as the ability to sift through bullshit, sit through manditory meetings and work in groups without killing people than just a receipt, but to each his own.

I didn't spend $140,000 to learn something they taught us in kindegarten.

However, I cannot refute Critias' point. I feel like I bought an overpriced key to ... the twilight zone for all I know. It's a receipt that shows that I like a couple thousand other people who are ostensibly intelligent are, instead, really fucking stupid for wasting the money.

I'd have been better off taking out the money from a bank and putting it on red at an Indian casino, or on Papa's Mustache in the third.

Well, in my case, the degree will be a peice of paper saying that I can design robots that actually work.
toturi
Not a single [expletive-deleted] open-[expletive-deleted]-book [expletive-deleted] exam in my civil engineering course. And now I know why, when a [expletive deleted] client asks whether a column/beam/slab can be altered, he doesn't want to hear "Let me fire up the computer program and let's see."

All the rest of the non-hard science courses I took to get the credits, I could have gotten at A Levels.
nick012000
Personally, I want engineers to finish their degree knowing their stuff. Just take a look at all the bridges and skyscrapers in your typical modern city. Now imagine being inside/on one when it falls down because of shoddy engineering.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (bclements @ Dec 5 2005, 08:14 PM)
Really, a normal person could probably teach Org. Management while sleeping. And get tenure! smile.gif

Not quite what he meant, methinks.

~J

Sleeping the teachers is still an effective way to make an A. Despite technological advances, the classics never go out of style.
Adarael
Well, come on. Most teachers only have 1 hit die anyway, and their will saves are total crap.
ShadowDragon8685
If I could have one piece of cyber, for the love of fuck give me an alpha/beta/delta Maths SPU 3. Forget "let me fire up the computer and find out," try "running more calulcations in your head than today's PCs and have the answer before you can take in the breath needed to disclaim the answer to the client."

And in the Sixth World, I imagine if you got cyber, you're going to be allowed to use it. The only kids who can afford cyber will be the rich kids, and it's not like they ever fail a course anyway. So if they're actually going to get the cyber that imparts the ability to do what they need to do, so much the better. Better that they spend the nuyen.gif for the ability to do it than just occupy space for the time it takes to get their degrees, then nepotize into a position where they're incompetent, and get their underlings to do all the work, as they always have done before.

Please, just give me a Maths SPU. I just hate the math. I've always felt that math class was more about being able to wield your TI-85 (I even upgraded, out of my own pocket, to a TI-89,) than being able to do it in your head.

Of course, as long as we're trading the Essense I don't need for cyber I do, I'll take a datajack/wireless uplink, Encephelon, Headware memory in obscene amounts, and eye/ear recorders with appropriate accompanying eye/ear headware. I expect that, if nothing else, I'll have a bright future as a corporate spy. nyahnyah.gif
SL James
QUOTE (nick012000)
Personally, I want engineers to finish their degree knowing their stuff. Just take a look at all the bridges and skyscrapers in your typical modern city. Now imagine being inside/on one when it falls down because of shoddy engineering.

While I would like that, I've known too many people who got a B.S. in engineering and were still incompetent to expect it to be a reliable indicator of anything other than having met the minimum requirements to get said degree.
Kagetenshi
My personal top 5, in order:

Datajack

Math SPU

Encephalon

Various hearing augmentations

VCR

~J
Lindt
Id say something, but Im STILL going to school for architecture. I started in 99. *faceplam* what the hell am I thinking?
SL James
Being an architorture major says plenty about what you're thinking.
Backgammon
What about casinos and gambling? How would casinos control people's ability to count cards perfectly?
Kagetenshi
Shuffle 30,000 decks together and reshuffle after every hand, increase the emphasis on games like Poker where the game isn't against the house per se, and increase the emphasis on games of pure chance (Craps, Roulette, slot machines, etc.).

I expect Blackjack to be dead in 2050s casinos.

~J
mfb
don't they reshuffle after every hand? it should be trivial to shuffle in such a way that one simply can't see the cards to cound them (eg, flip the deck so the top cards are facing directly towards the player's eyes, keeping him from seeing what the cards below the top are doing).
Fix-it
I'd go with a math SPU, because math is probably my weak point.

a datajack would be nice, but considering you really don't have much to interface with right now....
ShadowDragon8685
A wireless implant that could do Bluetooth or Wi-Fi would be awesome, though.
SpasticTeapot
I'd take boosted reflexes, synthacardium, a datajack, improved flexibility (or whatever the heck it's called), and a cranial cyberdeck. Also, cybereyes.
Of course, I'd need a fiber-optic to 802.11 adapter, but such a thing likely could be made.
Fix-it
maybe, I think I spend too much time online anyway.

hearing dampener & amplification, lowlight vision & microscopic vision are my second choices.
nezumi
Hmm... Seems like a lot of people aren't totally satisfied with their major. I certainly feel like I got more than a reciept (but then again, I had a real major, computer science).

I think it's interesting that the cyber listed as 'highly suggested' (which might just be mandatory) costs almost as much as the college education itself!! Sure, if you're getting your way paid by Renraku or whatnot you're in the gold, but if you're some middle manager's daughter working your way through on loans and scholarships, how are you going to put up the $8k for a datajack and a math SPU which would be almost required for a CS degree?

SL James
That CS degree's really going to come in handy when your job moves to India.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (SL James)
That CS degree's really going to come in handy when your job moves to India.

You have confused programming with computer science.

~J
SL James
Okay
nezumi
You've also confused private with government service. And IT with computer science. Even though India is creating technical institutes, the US continues to be the world leader in computer science (in the world economies, we've largely lost production and are gradually losing many service industries, but R&D is the one we're holding onto for dear life. That's programming.)

Trust me, of all the things I'd worry about in my job, being outsourced to India isn't really high on the list.
tisoz
QUOTE (nezumi)
if you're some middle manager's daughter working your way through on loans and scholarships, how are you going to put up the $8k for a datajack and a math SPU which would be almost required for a CS degree?

More loans. Interest slavery. Then when they are late on one single payment, to anyone, all their rates triple or go to the highest rate allowed under the usury laws. Since megas are extraterritorial, and get to have their own laws, I am sure they get to set their own rates. Loan shark rates.
Kagetenshi
You don't really need the math SPU, at least not up front. A DNI-equipped calculator will be nearly as fast. The 2k is a lot more bearable.

~J
SL James
QUOTE (nezumi)
You've also confused private with government service.

Yes. I got it. I got it when Kage posted.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
You don't really need the math SPU, at least not up front. A DNI-equipped calculator will be nearly as fast. The 2k is a lot more bearable.

~J

Considering how much a SOTA calculator costs now it is possible that the math SPU would be cheaper.
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