History Lesson - why cyberlimbs suck, Yeah, this'll be banned sooner or later Options

[Antimuppet]

I'd love somebody who knows SR history to explain to me why cyberlimbs just aren't worth the essence and cash. Sure, you can pack cool stuff into them and they make you a little tougher, but where's the scary level of damage you can inflict on somebody with a mechanical hand?

I realize this isn't Cyberpunk - but come on, why the hate for the limbs?

[Ancient History]

SR4 cyberlimbs are a lot nicer than in previous editions. Just for an example, until Cybertechnology came out in 2nd edition, all cyberlimbs started out at the same base strength - which sucked ass if you happened to be troll! The sheer cost for a cyberlimb was astronomical compared to the cost of buying an organic limb replacement (used or cloned), and the main benefit was to pack in all the fun little toys: cyberguns, retractable blades, a cyberdeck, a tactical computer, increased speed and strength, magnetic cyberlimb system, swappable cyberhands, etc.

Part of the reason is that Shadowrun-style cyberlimbs are fairly high-end when compared to the crappy prosthetics of today. They have tactile sensation, dexterity, human strength, durability, and are fairly low maintenece.

[Drac]

I know what you mean Antimuppet. A cyberarm in the latter half of the 21st century should be able to shatter bones easily with just a squeeze.

[mfb]

one limit on limbs--and, believe me, i'm not defending SR3's or even SR4's limbs--is that they're usually hooked up to flesh and bone. sure, the limb itself is capable of lifting a subcompact car, but the meat it's attached to can't support that weight.

that said, cyberlimbs are teh suxx. i like these much better.

[Gerald Fitzgeral...]

The actual metallic bones don't do the damage, it's the muscles.

As for crushing a normal arm with your cyber arm, the only thing that makes that logical is cyber-MUSCLES and they (used to) add anywhere from +1 to +4 to str and quick.

I, however, agree that in a world of AI's, mind controlled cars and trucks and computers which are mounted directly onto someone's brain... they are very expensive.

[Critias]

[nick012000]

Or if you're a cyberzombie, and willing to spend zillions of :nuyen: to get... whatever the maximum is (rating 10?) Strength/Quickness enhancments stuck in all of your limbs.

[Critias]

Even so, it's nothing you can't do with Muscle Augmentation and Muscle Toner, for less essence/bio index, and less money, and to wind up looking less obvious.

[nick012000]

Yeah well, when you're a cyberzombie, money doesn't tend to matter much. ;)

[Grinder]

The fact that annoyed me most at SR1-3 cyberlimbs was their high price. Imo cyberlimbs have a huge market; they're not only useful to a specialized cutsomer group like smartlinks. So many people in the world suffer from a lost leg or arm and would likely pay some nuyen to get a replace. But 100,000 :nuyen: for a basic model?

The new prices of SR4 make much more sense to me. Finally you don't have to sell your house just to get an improved cyberarm. :D

[Critias]

[nick012000]

[Critias]

If you're knowingly wastefull on chump change, it adds up to real money pretty quick. And, especially once you start increasing the grade and amount of 'ware (like you would when making a cyberzombie), it comes closer and closer to breaking that "chump change" limit, anyways.

When you know you're going to go to all the trouble and expense of making a cyberzombie, why would a successfull corp knowingly be so horribly inefficient about it? You don't get to be a successfull corp by doing stuff half-assed. Just because you can be wastefull doesn't mean you want to be. It's all about the bottom line.

It's the principle of it. Yes, you have to spend money to make money. But that doesn't mean you have to throw the stuff away on stupid crap like it's going out of style. It's all a matter of profit/loss, to the mega's -- just because their ideas of profit and loss are huge compared to ours doesn't mean they can ignore that.

And it's not like ARES MACROTECHNOLOGY, the monolithic entity posessing a hive-mind, is gonna say "Let's make a cyberzombie today!" You've got some manager somewhere, of some division, trying to pull some impressive shit, out to get some shit done to get his boss's attention, who's got to stay under budget in the meantime. He's not gonna look and go "Ares can afford it," and just decided to cram some soldier full of worthless crap that costs twice as much as efficient gear.

I stand by it: corp or not, when it comes to raw attribute increases, cyberlimbs just aren't worth it. If you're really after a few cyberlimb-specific tricks (like having a swiss army knife instead of a left arm), they just don't work except for style points (and corps, especially, don't care about those when they're funding soem combat monster).

[SpasticTeapot]

[Ancient History]

Of course, the questions no one asks are:
1) Could metahumans properly control easily-snap-someone's neck strength?
2) Would the Powers-What-Is allow every Jane Citizen to hacker her arms off, put on some beefy cyberlimbs and go around snapping people's necks as the whim takes her?
3) Would someone with superhuman cyberarm strength try to do something stupid (like, say, trying to lift their car) and end up ripping their arms off?

[Grinder]

[Antimuppet]

The neck (or well other body parts) snapping is what I'm talkin' bout. It's not so much "Can I pick that car up" (although that would rock to see). It's about grabbing somebody with a seven function force-feedback manipulator cased in grubby pink plastic and causing no end of havoc.

[Ancient History]

Ah, it's good you appreciate the classics, friend artiste.

[Deamon_Knight]

From a setting/story standpoint, this is a reasonable explanation as to why uberchromearms don't exist. Every street punk who thinks hes somebody will buy them, then try to pick up a ford americar and rip apart the torso the arms are attached to. 300 Class action Lawsuits later, the corps stop producing arms that could in anyway do this, and add a disclaimer etched over the forearm NOT MEANT FOR INDUSTRIAL LOADS. DO NOT LIFT CARS!

As to why much more powerful limbs aren't available on the black market, well, that a different call.

The only other advantage to cyberlimbs is they are the only other way to add to your body score after maxing bonelacing and Dermal Plating/Sheathing.

[Fix-it]

[Catsnightmare]

post deleted due to massive error

[Austere Emancipa...]

[nick012000]

[Catsnightmare]

You're right.
That's what I get for trying to do math while being disnumeric. :wobble:

[FrostyNSO]

I seriously don't see the guy with super-strength replacement arms tearing them out of his torso trying to lift a car unless he has super-strength replacement legs to go with it. Even if he does, he needs a stronger back (cyber-torso anybody). The muscles in his legs and back will give out long before he tears his arms off in most cases...but that would be damn funny.

It's not the strength in his arms that will seperate them from his body. His arms are really just holding onto the car and nothing else if his legs can't support the weight. Pushing up with the legs is the motion that will do the seperation.