 Has anyone ever played a decker who sold programs? |
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 Dec 18 2005, 09:07 PM
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#26
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581  |
There are a lot of things that I'm "bad-ass" enough to do myself that I just throw money at to have someone else do. I have a finite amount of time and a lot of better things to do with it than spend it doing things that I could get someone else to do for less than I consider my time to be worth. That's the basic foundation of the entire concept of "trade". |
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Dec 18 2005, 09:09 PM
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#27
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
Heh, like changing my oil :D
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Dec 18 2005, 09:28 PM
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#28
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Not to mention that, fundamentally, programming and decking/cracking are vastly different skillsets.
Does a fighter pilot know how to make air-to-air missiles? Can your average sniper create precision optics? Could Jelly Bryce have built a gun from scratch? Why, then, do you expect someone who can waste your sorry ass in Matrix combat to be able to program to that level? ~J |
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Dec 18 2005, 11:32 PM
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#29
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
not nessecarily to THAT level, but somewhere near it, yes. or at least I hope. being owned by a script kiddie kinda sucks. EDIT: Otaku are not script kiddies though. deffinitely not. |
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Dec 18 2005, 11:45 PM
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#30
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
My question was why, though. What is it about having one skill but not another that makes them a scriptkiddie?
~J |
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Dec 18 2005, 11:58 PM
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#31
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Could you find Black Hammer code while hacking the Lone Star mainframes and use it as a leg up to compile a new program? That would be SO profitable. Of course, if the company you're stealing from specializes in software, chances are it'll have REALLY high-level ice they developed in-house.
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Dec 19 2005, 12:20 AM
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#32
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Target Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 14-January 05 Member No.: 6,976 |
Any host that has source code for Black Hammer lying around is going to be Red-80 gajillion. If you have the chops to get onto such a host, slip past the IC and security deckers, get passed the inevitable worm or databomb on the file, and unencrypt it you may as well have written it yourself. |
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Dec 19 2005, 12:24 AM
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#33
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
…Unless you can deck but can't program.
~J |
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Dec 19 2005, 12:36 AM
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#34
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Target Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 14-January 05 Member No.: 6,976 |
Point taken. But in SR3, Decking and Programming have the same base skill (though programming sure is a hell of a lot easier with the appropriate knowledge skills). Because PCs cannot have specializations in excess of double their base skill, I don't know if you can have a decker who really can't program. |
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Dec 19 2005, 12:45 AM
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#35
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Computers 6 (Decking 12). Drek-hot decker incapable of programming more than a Rating 3 Black Hammer or a Rating 6 anything else.
~J |
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Dec 19 2005, 12:47 AM
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#36
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Target Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 14-January 05 Member No.: 6,976 |
Ah, completely forgot about that half specialization caveat for black hammer.
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Dec 19 2005, 12:51 AM
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#37
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Obviously I'm stretching the definition of "can't program" pretty far there, but my basic point of there being a level where you can't even come close to creating the tools that are at the proper level for you to use stands. Anyone with Computers (Decking) 12 is wasted on only rating 6 programs.
~J |
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Dec 19 2005, 04:19 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047 |
Am glad I kept reading, BH 8 needing computer (programing)16 after all had me on tender hooks :please:
As to stopping the programing factory am please to say I have a list of my additions: (As I have played a programming factory and therefore created a list to frag my own character :D) Time: obvious I know but without a programing suite it really mounts up. boredom: If they want to punch code all day they can go corp for more money and soon will after the extraction and kink bomb implant. Money: Base price for all sales on the street is one third its actual price! Also the cost of pure object code utilities are 25% cheaper. At least for hard nuyen. Service and equipment well...thats a matter of negotiation. (Fixer bargaining 8...... ) As already stated, market size. Difficult to get market credability with Hacker House being so realiable. Also your likely to get a level one lower utility as the customer trades up or deck parts parts perhapes? If you want to sell chips instead of straight code? Well I am afraid thats a psyical meet otherwise known as a run. :grinbig: |
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Dec 20 2005, 06:30 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 611 Joined: 21-October 03 From: Yorkshire Toxic Zone Member No.: 5,752 |
Me too! MARVELLOUS. Doesn't stop them churning out rating 9 everything else though (one of them has computer 8 the other has computer 5 prog 9 so in theory they could do an 8 together or an 8 and a 9 seperately - but over a far longer period). But at least it halves their Hammer rating, and drops its sell-price a LOT. What's the page ref? |
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Dec 20 2005, 06:39 PM
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#40
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I'll add that Killjoy is likewise difficult to program, leaving Track as the best moneymaker (multiplier 8, no special restriction on programming). I'm not taking Options into account, which could change things. Edit: it should be added that I'm also just looking at final program size. No comparison of programming time swing between this and smaller programs has been done. ~J |
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Dec 20 2005, 07:31 PM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047 |
Spotlite
Matrix p75 new utilities section. One more addition I forgot to add: Contacts facilitate the ease of sale, perhapes even the possibility of the sale. Hence longer times for not using contacts and a percentage profit loss for using contacts (10% I believe is the standard Fixer fee per used contact. Open to negotiation of course.) |
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Dec 20 2005, 08:08 PM
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#42
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Connected edge.
~J |
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Dec 20 2005, 11:25 PM
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#43
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
Third Party rules help with this too. "The walls have ears" or whatever it was called.
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Dec 21 2005, 05:05 PM
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#44
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 197 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,542 |
Here's how I would deal with this potential problem as a GM. Refer to the GM Guidelines or Rules if you want.
1. You are God. All things are possible through you. :D (Wow! Someone has a complex!) Nah, that's a little extreme but it's true. You don't have to allow anything in your world you don't want. However you do have to balance it as to what your players want. Notice I said balance. If you give them everything they want then you feel helpless and the game turns sour. (Ok Troll Sammie why are still running the shadows when you and Lofwyr are the only 2 people with stock in S-K?) But if you don't give anything to your players then they will get sick and stop playing. (Man come on I just need an Ares Predator. Do I have to run the Arcology with a plastic Spork again? YES!) It's all about balance. Which brings me to my next point 2. Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord. -- Job 1: 20-21 (KJV) Basically don't think you can't undo something. Ok so you're players have Black Hammer 8. They want to sell it and despite teams of Rules Lawyers pouring endlessly over sacred SR tomes they can't find anything to stop them! Panic! Chaos! Ok deep breaths, refer to rule 1. First breakdown your PC problem, nah dilemma, yeah that's nicer. 1. You as a GM don't want you players to have X amount of nuyen. (I use X because you said they were going to get some cyberware you wanted them to have.) 2. What possible problems could this bring about in your world? Think about what your players are doing. I don't know how powerful Black Hammer is in your campaign but if it's the hottest drek out there then it's a problem. Tell your players "Imagine that you have been given a nuclear bomb and that you can easily duplicate it and sell it. Would you? Morals aside think about the practical consequences of your actions. YOU just pushed the SOTA curve. Everything has to evolve now. IC has to get better. You'll have to evolve just like everyone else, but think for a minute if you hung onto it. Kept it secret. You'd be one of the only kids on the block to have a Tuttle Chopper when everyone else has a big wheel." If that doesn't work just find a way to take it. Not everyone is going to be happy by this turn of events. If your players wrote Black Hammer then they are in more trouble if they stole it. Corps are going to want it not only to use it but to find a way to defend against it. Criminal Organizations are going to want to it for their own purposes (those pesky Asians! :P ) Do you think they will pay top dollar for it? Nope. (I'll make him an offer he can't refuse.) And hackers! Forget it. Hell people fileshare (hence pirate) music and movies like it's going out of style. You don't think hackers will try to get it from you by some way in the Matrix? 3. The Falling Dragon Butt First Law. This was a law enacted by my AD&D DM when players were acting like jackasses. I think it is self-explanatory but it illustrates a point. Sometimes shit doesn't appear or need to make sense to happen. Maybe that utility has so many uses before the chip burns out (Bad Chip Chummer.) or it degrades with so many uses (Bad Chip Chummer.) Or maybe that shipment of blank chips was contaminated when you copied the Utility to them (Ahh Bad-- forget it.) A Toxic Spirit could have gone berserk and destroyed the only copy you had (Ahh sorry guys I guess Ol' Stinky got away from me :eek: ) Hell a plane crash could destroy the entire building. Now these are extreme cases and should only be used sparingly if at all but it is to make a point. See rule one. I hoped this helped |
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Dec 21 2005, 05:24 PM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047 |
Pray they have the connected edge, then apply eveything Lazarus just said to their contact. They get hit by a car and enter a coma (mine) or they develope brain cancer (Fade47's and mate it never get old.:D )
If they paid points for the flaw let them have it. With a little creative ref'ing, merits are flaws by a different name. And for completeness vice versa. |
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Dec 21 2005, 06:03 PM
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#46
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
sig'd. |
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Dec 21 2005, 11:20 PM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 197 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,542 |
Well you know Fix-It I was talking about you! :D
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Dec 22 2005, 01:18 AM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Hamilton.LTG.on.ca Member No.: 2,853 |
I let my players make copies and sell em, but if the Local crime org finds out, they want there cut.
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Dec 22 2005, 10:09 AM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 165 Joined: 30-September 04 Member No.: 6,715 |
1.28 million (Price for a Black Hammer 8) being only .22 million short of getting yourself a Fairlight Excalibur ... In other words, the only people who'll be able to afford both the software and the hardware (Not nessecarily an excalibur, but still something pretty expensive) are either going to be very good (And thus have a rep) or something stinks about them. |
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Dec 22 2005, 08:28 PM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 204 Joined: 27-October 05 From: Waterloo, ON Member No.: 7,900 |
Remember: A good rep sometimes means that anyone who knows you have a bad rap is dead.
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