Problems with Trolls in SR Options

[Lazarus]

Trolls... Trolls on paper can appeal to most gamers for a number of reasons. They get nice stat bonuses for the powergamers. They can also be intimidating. And they also make a unique role-playing challenge to those players whose GMs are good at portraying racial hatred in the SR world. But my question goes more to functionality then anything else.

Now I want to clarify that I do not own any SR4 stuff, yet so I don't know if Trolls have changed from SR3... But here is my query to all you other SR GMs out there. What have you done to solve your Troll problems? By that I mean just having Trolls in your world.

Recently my group and I decided to play SR as close to reality as possible. Yes we still have magic and what not, but we did other things like, keeping track of eqiupment (You will find this makes a BIG difference when done right.), playing racial bias up, and other things of that nature.

The Troll problem started when a player with a Troll character innocently said to a human Sammie in the group "Hey I'll ride with you."

Me: But he drives a Jackrabbit. (Don't ask ;) )

Troll Player: So?

Me: So how is a 8 foot Troll's that's about 4 feet wide, 450+ lbs going to ride in a Jackrabbit?

Troll Player: Uhhh. On top?

Me: Nice Try.

That got me to thinking. How the hell do Trolls actually function in a city? Everything they buy would have to be specially made for them. I mean everything. A Troll can't just buy a normal car, hell a big Troll couldn't buy a big truck or SUV without some major modification. Living in a normal apartment would suck. Even if you look at some of the pictures of Trolls they couldn't use normal firearms with those huge hands. I mean we are talking about a race that makes Shaq look like an average member, well Shaq with horns growing out of his head.

Basically after looking at all the shit they couldn't do we decided just to drop it. But it's almost like we opened a Pandora's box. I've thought about taking Trolls out of the game altogether or just making them like 1st Edition Trolls. Just wondering if any of you other GMs encountered anything like this and what you tried to do about it if anything.

Thanks in advance

[QUOTE]

[Kagetenshi]

The life of a Troll sucks. You have just discovered why.

~J

[Critias]

[Wiz In Red]

Dwarves have many of the same issues (small size). Dwarf and troll modified goods are available for a markup. I actually like this dynamic...it makes twinks think twice before playing a Dwarf or Troll as oppossed to an Elf or an Orc.

[Method]

Ah yes. Trolls.

Basically to make things realistic everything would have to be bigger. Door ways, ceilings, cars. Taxi's are probablly large mini-vans with very few seats, and even then a troll would be cramped.

But really living in a world that isn't built for your size is just another form of discrimination, so it just adds to the whole "anti-troll racism" theme of the world. In fact there are some canon references to this. I'm not sure where (Seattle SB maybe?) but I seem to remember stuff about the upper levels of the Renraku archology having lower ceilings, basically because the corp would never allow the larger meta-types to be promoted to such luxurious living/working spaces.

It does throw a wrench in the works as far as realism goes, though. Not much way around it.

[Mr.Platinum]

Once the 6th worlders get past racial issues, i'm pretty sure building,cars and other things will be universal.


Not universal like the brotherhood though.

[Method]

Oh and about mark ups:

I was just reading that according to the Guinness Book of World Records the guy with the world's largest feet pays $22K+ for his shoes.

Granted if he wants a pair of Nikes the corp has to reconfigure thier entire assembly process, but given the tiny percentage of the worlds population that trolls conprise it would still be seriously expensive to be that large.

[John Campbell]

Consider: Now the racists have a reasonable justification for "separate but equal". Trolls can't use a lot of normal human-proportioned facilities, and can't use many others comfortably. In many cases, refitting things so that trolls could use it comfortably would make it difficult for humans to use and practically impossible for dwarves. So... separate water fountains and bathroom stalls (and it's of course just a coincidence how poorly those are cleaned and maintained), separate taxis (which are low on the maintenance totem because they aren't as profitable as regular ones), buses with troll-sized seats in the back (with the proportion of troll-sized to regular seats based on the proportion of trolls in the general population... even on buses that run through neighborhoods where the residents are primarily trolls), separate troll-sized elevators (the cargo elevator, around back by the loading dock... follow the smell of garbage and hobo piss)...

In other cases, it would require massive expense to refit things for trolls, so people just wouldn't. Given the choice between paying some fines for violating accessibility laws or rebuilding their building to raise all the ceilings a meter, which do you think most public places will take? (Especially if it's cheaper to just pay off the building inspector to overlook the violations... and assuming that accessibility laws even cover metahumans.)

[JRDobbs]

One solution is just to make everything bigger in the 6th world. Nothing like large, imposing doorways, slightly too-tall steps, and high ceilings to get that "near future dystopia" vibe going.

That being said, I'm a normal height guy (6'00") and have had the experience of nearly brushing my head on the roof of the Singapore subway....

[PiXeL01]

Personally I have made think a tad bigger in my world to help that little problem along, but yeah I throw everything else at my troll players I can, eventhough in this groups history we only had one so far.

As for clothes I think in Changeling it was mentioned that were specific shops especielly for the "bigger" comsumers. With the procentage of Orks and Trolls in the 6th world it is actually a good marked, or at least an ok marked to get into. As for weapons and vehicles think of it as vehicles for the disadvantaged ;)

[Kagetenshi]

[ElFenrir]

Well, i remember reading in the new SR4 book, that there are some companies now that are dedicated to the differeing sizes of metas...of course the trolls and dwarfs. And i notice now, at character creation, you do not need to pay more for mods...only in game. And i don't think for everything...making me think that things like clothing, basics, are made in compliance these days for folks of all sizes.

Of course, i have a feeling in the CAS these might be harder to come by if they are still as backward as they are today.

But most weapons, etc, i'm sure need to be modified...but judging by the number of metas growing over the years, that this is becoming more common.

Hell, right now i'm playing a Giant metavariant. Talk about pain in the ass. Fun, yes, but he has trouble fitting in places that normal trolls go. I knew what i was getting into, tho. I like trolls, but no doubt they have a few disadvantages on their sides.

BTW...I never really delved ALL the way into SR1...only on a surface level. How were they different then? Were they smaller in those days?

[Ancient History]

Anyone else ever superglued a broken horn back into place? Man, I hate it when that happens. One of these days I'm gonna pull a Hellboy and just grind the damn things down.

[Feshy]

[TheHappyAnarchis...]

One thing that gets me is just the hand sizes.

Just think what even a Predator would look like, Troll modified. It would be laughable.

They could probably, realistically (as I can figure it) get up to ridiculous calibers of weapons for troll pistols though. I don't know much, but think of going from a .50 cal desert eagle to the new desert eagle troll, .75 cal or more!

[FrankTrollman]

Troll modifications would have been completed on most (if not all) megacorporate property years ago. Minor corporations don't have to worry about accessability restrictions and will sometimes have 2.1m doors (that elves and orks are bonking their heads on constantly), but major architecture has been appropriately modified long ago.

Even privacy fences are going to be like 4 meters tall because as long as there are giants anywhere (and there are), those old 2.5m privacy fences just don't provide... privacy.

So yeah, dwarves and trolls are going to find that windows are often placed at an inconvenient height, but they aren't going to be looking at ceilings and doorways that can't accomodate them very often.

[jervinator]

After all these years, I am still amazed at how many people look at the Strength and Body bonuses for Trolls and drool, but then are surprised when I whack them with increased equipment costs, restricted accessibility to normal areas, difficulty in finding transportation, and just plain public fear/hatred. When you play a 9 foot tall character with hands big enough to palm the average human head, you can't just shrink your PC when you find that excessive size inconvenient.

[mintcar]

I have asked my players not to play troll characters for a while. It´s fun in many ways, sure. And I wouldn´t prevent it arbitrary. It´s just been so much trouble in the past, I´d rather not deal with it for a while.

[Ancient History]

[mmu1]

I never played a troll, but I did play a couple of dwarf characters, and I have to admit I made them as tall as I could, within reason. (one was just a big guy - for a dwarf - another was Human Looking) I figure if there are quite a few humans who are 6'8", there's no reason why there can't be a few dwarves that are around 5' tall, and it cuts down on the really embarassing situations, like not being able to see over a deli counter. ;)

[eidolon]

[Critias]

[Glyph]

...And the other 1/3 play albino gnome sorcerers. :D

[mmu1]

[ShadowDragon8685]

As an aside... It occurs to me that human-sized weapons, when equipped with Troll-sized foregrips, make a handy dandy carbine. Ingram Valiant, for example. For a human, it's an LMG. For a Troll, it's a handy carbine, or maybe even a submachine gun. A belt-fed SMG, maybe, but still...

So, it occured to me... A troll should get some sort of inherant recoil compensation. That's just such a massive thing behind the gun that he won't have much trouble keeping it on-target for the first ten or so rounds.