 SR3 or SR4, I tried search, couldnt find much.. |
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 Jan 20 2006, 08:25 PM
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#26
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Immortal Elf  Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670  |
no way. i mostly like FrankTrollman, for all that he's a dirty, filthy SR4 player.
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Jan 20 2006, 09:06 PM
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#27
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Then you'd be doubly wrong with what you posted. |
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Jan 20 2006, 09:37 PM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Hamilton.LTG.on.ca Member No.: 2,853 |
Well I am a huge fan of all the flavour in The SR3 world.
The beef i have is with the matrix, it some times can take away from the other players but that issue has been solved in SR4 in my mind, they changed the system around and i'm still not sure if i like it yet, but i still need more play time with the sytem. What I hope from sr4 is the continuitity of flavour they had in the 3rd ed system, either way i feel both systems are good, SR3 now has an old school feel to it since it's the old one now though. Damn Destert Flame wars thread would of been awsome. I could of unleashed my true potential. |
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Jan 20 2006, 10:07 PM
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#29
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
I don´t think you need to have any great knowledge about either system to make your pick. They are that different. It´s just a question of what you want to get out of your roleplaying, pure and simple.
Any bickering over details is pointless, because no amount of faults pointed out in either system will turn that system´s followers (making this sound like a religious debate now :)). If it was a question about which was better of two systems with a common goal, that might work but not as it is. And if you criticize your least favourite system for one of the reasons that counts (being; the kind of play it promotes) you will only end up offending someone´s playstyle. The topic of this thread is one we are unable to handle. What was asked for was essentially a simple pros/cons list, providing guidence in choosing what edition to pick. The only thing we can agree on here is that if you tried both—you liked one better than the other. |
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Jan 20 2006, 10:09 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Hamilton.LTG.on.ca Member No.: 2,853 |
But we are all welcome to share our opinions on this forum, the person is just looking for genral opinions. :) |
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Jan 20 2006, 10:13 PM
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#31
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
I don´t know how much you saw of the SR4 forum the time before and shortly after the release of the game. I´m just causioning people with a bit of insight from that period :) . It got real ugly.
Off course I got to say my part and fight my battles then. So did blakkie, Critias, Kage and mfb among others. Which might be a reason for their relative silence in this thread. So anyone who feels they still have something to say on the subject, don´t let me stop you :) . |
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Jan 20 2006, 11:00 PM
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#32
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
The only parts i had missed were on reruns and halucingen enhanced mathmatic activities, so i'm all good now thanks. :) |
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Jan 21 2006, 05:54 AM
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#33
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
I wasn't being "silent" so much as "I actually did try to post a fairly helpfull and informative breakdown of the (generalized) differences between the two games, earlier in this thread." Which I can understand as relative silence, though, don't get me wrong. There wasn't any, y'know, gunfire or burning buildings or anything, so it was an awful lot quieter than a normal discussion. |
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Jan 21 2006, 06:42 AM
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#34
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Psch, everyone knows that rules streamlining is bad. The best RPG system I ever played was one written by my friend Matt which tried to be totally realistic and which literally required a laptop with C scripts written on it to handle all of the number crunching. It was righteously aweseome to have a GM using a computer to crunch all his numbers in order to model as best he could what happens when my character used spray and pray tactics with a MP5N.
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Jan 21 2006, 07:55 AM
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#35
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Honestly, although I prefer SR3, I think getting the new version would be better for someone starting to play Shadowrun for the first time. You only need to buy one book, and the rules are simpler. Plus, the SR4 book is a lot more self-contained than the SR3 one. It may not be all-inclusive, but it has enough of everything to start with. SR3 didn't have edges and flaws, commonly encountered critters, initiation, submersion, or bioware - you would need several books to get the equivalent of the basic SR4 rulebook (although they would be more comprehensive). With SR4, you just have to pick up one book with a relatively short learning curve, and you're ready to play.
I would only recommend SR3 if you have a good source for lots of the books, used, and if you are prepared to make an investment in both time and money to accumulate the books and learn all of the rules. |
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Jan 21 2006, 08:18 AM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 1-April 04 Member No.: 6,211 |
I just can't help but grin, remembering the "SR2 vs SR3" discussions.
I was on the SR3 side, and I remember reading and taking part in some arguments. I think this will end up being the same way, eventually. Everyone will switch over to SR4, some will house rule things from 3 into 4 and the board will quiet down into the soft rumblings of grognards doing what they do best. It seems almost everyone switches eventually, some just need more time than others. |
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Jan 21 2006, 08:55 AM
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#37
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Key word being almost. To this day, you still get the ocasional old codger step out onto the internets from his cabin in the hills and wander onto dumpshock to post about the first edition SR game his group's been playing. |
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Jan 21 2006, 09:02 AM
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#38
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
If they're havin' fun, who cares?
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Jan 21 2006, 09:22 AM
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#39
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
In an ideal world, no one.
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Jan 21 2006, 09:37 AM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 1-April 04 Member No.: 6,211 |
QFT |
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Jan 22 2006, 02:15 AM
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#41
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
The god of math. |
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Jan 22 2006, 04:54 PM
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#42
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
I haven't seen SR4 around here in local stores and I'm not laying out a sizable chunk of change for somethnig so many people have said they haver problems with. Yes decking in SR3 is still a problem. maybe even a worse one than in SR2 BUT I've noticed people who like SR4 have likened it to the VtM system. I've played that and enjoy the role playing but for a mechanical system it makes me bug nuts!
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Jan 22 2006, 05:00 PM
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#43
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Target Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 22-January 06 From: Winston-Salem, NC Member No.: 8,187 |
I would have to recommend SR4 as well. I find the faster gameplay due to the more streamline system extremely attractive. ;)
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Jan 22 2006, 05:45 PM
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#44
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Comparisons to nWoD are inevitable. They came out at about the same time, they both use a skill + attribute base mechanic, and the standard dice methods of nWoD and SR4 both default to averaging 1/3 as many hits as you roll dice. That's about where the comparison ends, of course. nWoD repeatedly violates its own game mechanics (the more skilled you are, the more you'd rather be swinging an axe; no matter how tough you are, 20 kids with BB guns are going to drop you in one combat round), and SR4 does not. The moral of that story is actually that if you were at all tempted to play Vampire, you'd go grab a copy of SR4 and use those game mechanics instead. They are close enough that you can port most things on the fly, but smoother and more balanced all around. -Frank |
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Jan 23 2006, 03:24 AM
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#45
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Target Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 22-January 06 From: Winston-Salem, NC Member No.: 8,187 |
Hmm... An option I had not considered before, running NWoD with SR4's mechanics. While I am not a partisan of Requiem or Awakening ( they each have merit, they're just not my cup of tea ), I am a 'Forsaken Fanatic' so I believe I will put your hypothesis to the test. Thanks Frank! ;) |
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Jan 26 2006, 08:34 AM
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#46
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
Invitation accepted I have made several points here and there in these debates, not to mention a few smart assed comments. But I have not put my complete stance forward: When I first heard about a new shadowrun edition I was jumping for joy, Edward from these forums knows me IRL so can confirm this. When the FAQs started coming in I was shocked and horrified. The changes being made were completely rewriting the game, but was hopeful that the changes would be for the better. There was a part of me that doubted, mostly because of the years of broken promises and strange game rules from Fanpro. (before anyone asks the first two to come to mind were the new geas rules and the rigger 3 vehicles rules rewrite. That and the cyberware compatibility changes.) Those doubts were solidified when MFB retired as a playtester. On that day my one remaining hope was that the final main book would not make me physically ill That hope was dashed when I read throug the main book. Now, after going through it several times I have come to these conclusions: 1: SR4 is as much like SR3 as it is like NWOD 2: the system is full of holes that require GM attention, more so than even RIFTS 3: the system is faster than SR3 4: I will never run this system 5: If I play in it, I will be a hacker who remote in to help 6: It is now possible to ignore all old storylines from pre SOTA 63 book, as they will most likely be ignored in the new edition 7: it is far more tolerable if I pretend it is an elseworld and not shadowrun (kinda like cybergeneration) |
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Jan 27 2006, 01:10 AM
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#47
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Target Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,544 |
#1 I disagree, it's more like NWOD than SR3. #4 Agreed. #5 I won't play. Period. #6 I think this is intentional. After all, this is the New Shadowrun, not that old clunky system that spawned so mamy fans. #7 Their biggest mistake was calling it Shadowrun. It's not and it never will be. They changed a lot of things to attracted new players. I don't think they considered how many old players they'ld be alienating. |
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Jan 27 2006, 01:21 AM
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#48
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
I am a SR player. I am old. I am not alienated. I am happy SR4 removed so many things that drove me nuts about playing SR3, but kept many of the things that make it SR for me. It is like drinking Unicorn Giggles®. I like to think they changed it just for me to keep me from going out and getting cancer playing Spycraft D20. |
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Jan 27 2006, 01:36 AM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 90 |
1: either way I hate NWoD and New Shadowrun both. 2: agreed, I can balance Rifts better than the crap rules in New Shadowrun. 3: Not gonna bother trying it to find out. 4: Same here. 5: I won't play in it period 6: Another reason New SR pisses me off. 7: Well I have to agree with Starfurie on this one. |
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Jan 27 2006, 01:42 AM
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#50
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
Okay I should clarity my own #5 here
I will play said ahcker... or more likely hackadept, with the express purpose of showing up fastjack and breaking the GM so they will run something sensible and less silly... like toon |
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