 Questions of the Bizarre, Do ghouls Mate? |
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 Jan 21 2006, 05:07 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Hamilton.LTG.on.ca Member No.: 2,853  |
Yes i was pondering? I was warped in the head, but i could not find anything cannon that would suggest um you know, the uh uh, the schuka schuka, the hot dog and donut and so on.
Do a species infected with the HMHVV virus get it on? |
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Jan 21 2006, 05:26 PM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Yes. Children born of ghouls are not Infected (at least not always), but are often infected shortly afterwards.
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Jan 21 2006, 05:28 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Hamilton.LTG.on.ca Member No.: 2,853 |
Man thats some fucked up shit!
Thanks for creeping me out Ancient. |
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Jan 21 2006, 05:48 PM
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#4
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Never took a gander at Zeuvembie, eh?
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Jan 21 2006, 06:21 PM
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#5
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
I'm going to disagree with Ancient:
There is an occassional pinky born to ghoulish stalk, but they are rare. -Frank |
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Jan 21 2006, 06:38 PM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Well, Hell. I must have misremembered.
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Jan 21 2006, 09:14 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 17-August 04 Member No.: 6,568 |
In Psychotrope one of the deckers is a ghoul. In one of the chapters he talks about his son being born a ghoul and it biting flesh from the mother as she tried to nurse it.
Oddly it doesnt really say (AFAIR) if the mother was a ghoul or not. One would assume so, but I guess its entirely possible she wasnt. |
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Jan 21 2006, 09:20 PM
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#8
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
Hmmm... one of the reasons of getting 'protection' when going for a night out... What are some of the srun equivalents for protection? Full body condom that is meshed with chainmail and kevlar? :silly: dont' bother answering, I'm being silly. Oy, I still can't get it out of my mind about the one comment in SoA, where that one exec is being blackmailed because of a video of him, some underaged boys, and a HMHVV-infected panda... :eek: |
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Jan 21 2006, 10:01 PM
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#9
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
God damn that shit pisses me off. There is not now, and never will be an HMHVV infected panda. Ever. There can't be. If it turns out that pandas can be infected by the virus that causes vampirism, then the entire virus would be renamed MVV - Mammalian Vampiric Virus. If, as is far more likely, Pandas (and perhaps Koalas) can be infected with a similar virus that also causes vampirism of a sorts, then they are infected with UVV - Ursid Vampiric Virus.
HMHVV can only infect humans or metahumans, that's what its name means. There are nomenclature rules for a reason, and the names of virus categories convey real information, they aren't just a bunch of fancy letters put up to look cool. --- Similarly, there is no fucking way that ghouls could be the result of a strain of HMHVV either - the name of the virus means that it causes vampirism. Since ghouls do not have vampiric powers, the virus that causes their condition would by definition have a different name. HMHHV (Human Metahuman Horridus Virus) perhaps. But that's a different, and much longer running complaint. -Frank |
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Jan 21 2006, 10:17 PM
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#10
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
they dont rename a decease just because it changes its target. look at bird flu...
HMHVV was first documented as just that. then later on variations on said virus where then found to cause anything from ghouls to werewolfs... btw, im not surprised that the ghoul strain can jump from parent to child. isnt there a whole lot of kids with HIV/AIDS running around in african nations because their parents have it? desceases allso have a bad habbit of being able to mutate, and at a very rapid rate at times (us humans playing around with them dont help matter either)... and ghouls can in broad terms be seens as a a variant on vampires. not as powerfull, but then allso more stable (no essence loss for one thing). they have a very specific diet, metahuman flesh, is astraly active, and can transfer the illness with a bite (iirc). still, SR is a game. dont like it, dont play it that way. but as this is related to canon, i dont see the need to air what looks to me like a in-house rewrite of said canon... |
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Jan 21 2006, 10:26 PM
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#11
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
Geez dude, take a chill pill. or rather keep it up and have a stroke in a few years for all I care. Whatever the case, I could be using the HMHVV thing wrong, but still, it was funny reading that in the SoA commentary. And guess what, we'll stick with HMHVV for pandas and koalas even if it causes you to die. :nyah: |
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Jan 21 2006, 10:34 PM
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#12
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
or better yet, push it even more so that someone gets a stroke or similar, faster :smokin: :silly: |
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Jan 21 2006, 10:40 PM
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#13
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Oh, come off it Frank. I know you've got this mad hate on for the Ghouldom-as-virus thing, but you really should drop it. Look, everybody and their brother agrees the name should be changed - HMHVV barely works for the ones that do drain Essence - but it's a family of related viruses. Would you rather there were, say, 14 different viruses that all caused really funky mutations in various metahumans (and other animals, in some cases)? |
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Jan 21 2006, 10:56 PM
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#14
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Actually, they do. Just look at Simian Immunodeficiency Virus and Human Immunodeficiency Virus.
OK. It's named Avian Influenza if it spreads easily in birds and not in humans. Human Influenza spreads easily in humans. Avian influenza is seriously not a problem among humans, definitionally. The worry is that if enough birds have a type of influenza in proximity to humans that a new human-infecting influenza will develope out of that large and geographically disperse genetic resevoire. As soon as it makes the jump and starts infecting humans it is labeled as a Human influenza. The name "bird flu" is a slang term, not an acronymized scientific category. Similarly, the H1N1 influenzy (most devastating influenza outbreak ever) was called "Spanish flu", but again that was a term for where it came from, and not for what it infects.
Right. And those variations would be given new names. Probably HMHDV (Human Metahuman Dietary deficiency Virus), but possibly HMHHV or HMHLV depending upon how the categorizers felt about it.
Actually, humans playing around with viruses doesn't normally cause problems (biowarfare games excluded of couyrse). But yes, viruses mutate a lot - which is why there are so many names for them! The H5N1 virus is the current big scary because it has such a high lethality rate, not because it is particularly capable of infecting humans. The human infecting influenza variants on the market today are H1N1, H1N2, and H3N2. The "H" numbers refer to the type of hemagglutinin protein on the virus and the "N" number refers to the neuraminidase protein. The concern of bird flu is that the new combination of antigens could mutate again and make a new combination of antigens that is simultaneously dangerous to humans and extremely deadly to those it infects. Right now the H5N1 virus is rather less dangerous to humans than pigs - who eat more people each year than the virus kills.
Actually, that's exactly why ghouls aren't vampires. They can transfer their disease with a bite, a vampire can only transmit the virus by killing its target with Essence Drain - a vector that is both unnecessary and unavailable to ghouls.
Yes. I would. -Frank |
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Jan 21 2006, 11:20 PM
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#15
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
Anyway, so the HMHVV infected PANDAS should be a cause for concern in the wilds of China, but if there's such a panda craze nowadays at zoos, I wonder if the the infected pandas would draw a similar craze or not in the Shadowrun world. Plus, would people really want them to mate and have more HMHVV infected PANDAS? I guess that's one thing the pandas have going for them, more cuddliness and such. The ghoul nations should hire better publicists...
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Jan 21 2006, 11:51 PM
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#16
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
I must wonder how many people who post in Shadowlands are actually hard-assed virologists and how many are lay persons using a generally accepted lay term.
Yeah, it should be possible for a blood borne virus to pass from parent to child. However, it should also be possible that it does not. The placenta serves to insulate the fetus' cardiovascular system from the mother's. Since parents and children can have different blood types this is very important. This also means that it is possible for HIV infected women to give birth to uninfected children. This happens fairly often. However, it is sometimes possible for small amounts of blood to pass through the placenta and certain viruses can pass through the placenta along with oxygen and nutrients. |
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Jan 22 2006, 12:20 AM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Well, we all choose different things to be anal about.
[/edit] Just for shits and giggles, let's look at a general map of the HMHVV family: HMHVV -Transforms humans into vampires, elves into banshees, orks into wendigo, trolls into dzoo-noo-qua, and dwarfs into goblins HMHVV (variant 1) -Transforms humans into Abat HMHVV (variant 2) -Transforms humans into Amalanhig HMHVV (variant 3) -Transforms humans in Sukuyan Bruckner-Langer Strain -Transforms humans (and the rare elf) into nosferatu Jarka-Criscione Strain (AKA HMHVV II) -Transforms sasquatch into Bandersnatch, humans into loup-garou, trolls into formorians Krieger Strain -Transforms humans, elves, dwarfs, orks, and trolls into ghouls Krieger-Laluah Strain -Transforms humans, elves, dwarfs, orks, and trolls into sasobonsam Krieger Strain (variant 1) -Transforms humans, elves, dwarfs, orks, and trolls into busaw Drop Bear Strain -Transforms koala bears into drop bears That's ten different strains, each of which probably has a scientfic name no one's bothered to post yet. If you break it down by species - which I think is pure overkill, but there is some basis for it - you're looking at a minimum of 17 virii. And that doesn't include weird critters like gaki which have barely shown up on the map yet. Too much of a geek fest, even for me, man. |
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Jan 22 2006, 01:11 AM
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#18
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
Ack, if it fails the Ancient History geek level test, then we gotta simplify it! ;-) |
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Jan 22 2006, 02:00 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,010 |
Good god.
I didn't know there were that many different things the stupid virus could cause. Sort of one of my players (which is likely with my wife) making an expert in virology, I think I will stick with the "normal" name. Where did the info for all those damn varients come from? And tell me the Drop Bear thing is a joke from the Drop Bear thread. |
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Jan 22 2006, 02:32 AM
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#20
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Yeah. There was a period in FASA development in which HMHVV was the default explanation for basically everything - leaving us with quite a bit of absurdity. Paranormal Animals of Europe has an HMHVV variant every couple pages. Apparently in the future virologists have simply thrown their hands up in disgust and all magical communicable syndromes are lumped under the heading of "Human Metahuman Vampiric Virus" even when they don't afflict humans or cause vampirism. I'm surprised that Mantis Spirits aren't classified as an HMHVV vairant.
It goes the opposite direction I'm afraid. Drop Bears are a real (tongue-in-cheek) legend from Australia, and appear in several pieces of fiction in numerous sources. Drop Bears were listed as being an HMHVV variant, apparently as a joke about how many extra HMHVV variants had been written up, and the Drop Bear Thread is a running joke originally based on that description. In short, it's simply something that has passed so far into meta-humor that it stopped being funny and became funny again and then stopped being funny again. The joke about how old the original joke had become has itself gotten old. -Frank |
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Jan 22 2006, 02:39 AM
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#21
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
It just goes to show that simplification in RPGs is bad. What SR4 really needed was a panel of virologists and biologists to get all the biological stuff, and then a really complex engine for simulating disease in a correct manner.
Then they needed to hire John Mullins to implement calibers and firearms realism. And then of course they needed to hire Stephen Kenson for magical real...oh, wait. |
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Jan 22 2006, 03:04 AM
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#22
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Heh. I don't think we have to go that far. Mostly I think it just shows the danger of shooting your mouth off when you don't know what you are talking about. I'm fine with the Ares Pedator being "a heavy pistol" - players who know what the calibers of actual heavy pistols can fill those in if for some reason it becomes important. But letting someone like me (whose knowledge of firearms is much like Antonio Banderas' knowledge of swords from The Mask of Zorro - the bullet goes in the other man) write in calibers that "sound cool" on all the weapons would detract from the game. People who actually knew anything about firearms would be insulted, and people who played the game would actually know less about firearms after playing the games.
Actually something similar happened with offensive and defensive grenades back in previous editions. A "defensive" grenade is one that is intended to be used from a fox hole, and has a much larger kill radius than an "offensive" grenade that is intended to concuss people inside bunkers from without. Similarly, letting people write up a bunch of virus "scientific names" back in the early nineties when they obviously wouldn't have the first idea of how to even decipher a virus name - was an error. -Frank |
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Jan 22 2006, 03:15 AM
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#23
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Then it is time we refreshed the old joke about the old joke!
Vampire Pandas on the flanks, Dropbears in the van! Form a spear of darkness! Charge! On-topic: Yeah. Ghouls do get it on, you know. Like if they didn't, there won't be a ghoul nation. :P |
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Jan 22 2006, 03:31 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Hamilton.LTG.on.ca Member No.: 2,853 |
What in sam hell have i caused?
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Jan 22 2006, 03:38 AM
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#25
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Nothing unusual. If not for your exposure to the mirth that is the drop bear thread, you too may realize how absolutely normal nit-picking and arbitrary flames really are. Drek, go look at any gun discussion, you can sometimes find 3 RL gun experts arguing about whose complete house-rule set is more perfect. |
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