 Questions of the Bizarre, Do ghouls Mate? |
  |
 Jan 22 2006, 03:42 AM
Post
#26
|
|
|
Canon Companion  Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187  |
:rollin:
|
 |
 
|
|
Jan 22 2006, 03:48 AM
Post
#27
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
As long as we don't resurrect the Ask Ancient History thread. Serial nightmare, I'm tellin' ya.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2006, 04:06 AM
Post
#28
|
|||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
That's great. But well I for one didn't write it up. But I'm gonna say that the animal is infected with HMHVV because it's simple enough to get the meaning across and people know what I'm talking about. The fact that I did not look up the specific virus in this regards, well then tell me what the virus name is specifically for vampiric pandas. part of the Drop bear strain? subclassed via the Panda? Henceforth, I shall instead call it the VIRUS*-infected PANDAS * Said virus being related to the Drop Bear Strain, related to the HMHVV strain in humans that causes vampiric conditions within the subject. Such condition includes symptoms of wanting to cuddle with an individual and suck their bloods out. By no means should one be in close proximity with such infected subjects and should one be aware of one, please remove self from the area and contact the local authorities. By no means should one deal with one themselves, leave it to the trained professionals. And above all else do NOT copy any moves you see by the Awakened Hunter ™ series, all such moves were done by a trained professional with years of experience and an onsite fully staffed medical team and a heavily armed response team. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 22 2006, 06:07 AM
Post
#29
|
|||
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
It's more like a 10k marathon at this point really. BTW< how 'bout 'mad cow' if you don't like the example of the bird flu. Honestly I think HMHVV is more akin to UGE. Basically, it's an abbreviation for something they made up to classify something that they did not understand. UGE (Unexplained Genetic Expression) was named such becuase people were scareed, had no idea what was going on, and it became a catch phrase to make people feel scure. "No, you're kid isn't a demon, he's just a UGE baby." I thin they described it almost exactly like that in the source books actually. Advanced the time line 4-50 years, and they have a much better idea of what trolls and orks are. THey're not so unexplained anymore, although no one has the exact details (except for the Profezzor). HMHVV is the same thing. By now they have a much better idea about it, and you can be sure that the scientists and lab rats in SR have much more complicated names for it. But we don't need that. If you feel so inclined to name each variant seperately, then do so. But for the world at large (and players) HMHVV is recognised and familiar enough to get the idea across. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 22 2006, 06:29 AM
Post
#30
|
|||
|
Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Exactly. Mad cow, or Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy is a prion, not a virus. And even then, once it affects humans it becomes new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (nvCJD). Note that because it is a protein ailment and not a viral agent, it can be (and is) named after people. Viruses never are. Spongiform encephalopathy in humans gets treated the same way that things like Huntington's Disease are for the purposes of naming. -Frank |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 22 2006, 06:36 AM
Post
#31
|
|
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
:notworthy:
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2006, 10:03 AM
Post
#32
|
|||
|
Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
What? I loved that thread! :D |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 22 2006, 10:13 AM
Post
#33
|
|
|
Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
Despite what biologists tell me, I still think it's more fun to think of human-affecting prions such as C-J Mad Cow Disease as 'angry shapes' rather than 'malformed protein chains'.
Because I hate it when cows push their messed-up, self-replicating shapes into my gray matter! |
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2006, 10:42 AM
Post
#34
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Frank: Game makers can´t be experts in every feild. So the virus pisses you off, well the only thing you can do about it (and I´m sure you are) is giving the different strands your own names in your game. You do realize that there are other completely stupid things in this game that you happily swallow with blissful ignorance, right? Just the way I´ve never been bothered (much) by HMHVV up until now. You´re lucky your disbelief only demands you change a few names of viruses—SLJames will have to change the entire history of the UCAS :P .
(I guess I´m just ignorant enough to accept most of it as it is myself) |
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2006, 11:04 AM
Post
#35
|
|
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
If caught early the Krieger Strain can be cured. This is important to remember if you get into melee with a ghoul or if you run into Zeuvembie and don't have any condoms.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2006, 02:07 PM
Post
#36
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
ok, so it was another foot in mouth moment. but still, my main gripe was the clear anal and "my way or no way" kind of way the complaint was posted. but then i should maybe have gotten used to it as it seems to show up in all areas of SR...
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2006, 04:39 PM
Post
#37
|
|||
|
Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
sum of snitch! mark the calendears and someone call Guiness! |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 22 2006, 05:34 PM
Post
#38
|
|||
|
Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Wow. That works surprisingly well. Of course, the proteins aren't independently alive and are incapable of caring about things, so they aren't literally angry. But the analogy is pretty tight - it is the folding (the "shape") that makes the protein damaging (or "angry" if you will), not the actual amino acid make-up of the chain. So you can carry on with that I suppose. It might get you some strange looks in an X-ray crystalography lab, but for a street definition it is certainly close enough. The important part about prions is that they are non-living and non-genetically induced. "Angry Shapes" gets that across fairly well actually. --- My complaint is not that people have to use scientifically accurate terms, or that they have to have micro-organisms (and sub-organisms) behave like they normally do once they invke Magic. My complaint is only that if people do decide to whip out the science-speak to make themselves sound smart, that they at least do us the curtesy of looking up what that science speak means so that they don't undermine the story. Did you know that Shadowrun has half-ghouls? I'm pretty sure its not supposed to, but now it does. Here's why: Originally, ghouls were caused by goblinization. We all know how that works, it's an all or nothing process that is invoked if the mana-sphere takes a shine to your non-coding DNA sequences. Goblinized parents are more likely to have goblinized children, but since the non-coding bits are a little different there are no guarantees. So back then, an individual was a ghoul or not a ghoul, right? And then they retconned the history of goblinization research, where apparently despite the fact that a virus was the original and disproved hypothesis for goblinization, noone had bothered to repeat the ork and troll research on ghouls and ghouls actually were caused by a virus. O-K. The reason that ghouls usually have ghoul babies is reported in Cyberpirates - Krieger Strain modifies the host's DNA and the virus is often passed from mother to child. So the ghoul causing virus that people managed to disprove the existence of and then subsequently find 40 years later is a retrovirus that affects the germ line. So if you're a ghoul male, and you impregnate a human female (giving her a Krieger prophylactic or just using artificial insemination) then you have a child that has half ghoul-modified DNA and half normal human DNA. This child can even goblinize, making a half-ghoul troll. --- That's what I object to. If people use real science words and don't know what they mean, they end up undermining the setting. I can accept that you can't make a living vampire with immuno-suppressants and a hypodermic filled with vampire blood because HMHVV is magic and doesn't have to follow your rules, man. Sure, that's the kind of suspension of disbelief that you have to accept when you start throwing Magic around. But when you start coming up with pseudo-science explanations ("the Magic altered his DNA to give him Ghoul Powers!") then it starts being subject to analysis and prediction by real science, which can take the story into directions we don't want. We've all seen D&D close enough to know that we don't want half-ghouls running around. And yet, the Krieger-strain plotline gave us exactly that. And that's... unfortunate. -Frank |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 22 2006, 05:41 PM
Post
#39
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Hamilton.LTG.on.ca Member No.: 2,853 |
I would like to say something!
It's only a Game, there is more to life.! :D |
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2006, 06:06 PM
Post
#40
|
|
|
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
"It's only a game, so we shouldn't be bothered if it sucks/is stupid/is so far removed from reality we can't stand it/feel like we've been ripped off/etc, etc."
Yes, it's a game. However, it's not "only" a game -- it's also a product we've, as consumers, paid money for. That means we'd like it to be a high quality product, and that means when it isn't, we're allowed to bitch about it. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2006, 06:07 PM
Post
#41
|
|||||||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Originally, ghouls were assumed to be caused by Goblinization, because the already-present retrovirus activated when the mana rose.
You're reading the facts wrong here. Ghouls were initially assumed to have Goblinized, and science initially approached Goblinization as being a result of a retrovirus. It was discovered that Goblinization was not caused by a retrovirus, and Ghouls were created by a retrovirus. Call it a retcon if you must, but metahumans don't Goblinize into Ghouls, the people at the time just thought they did. Later research proved them wrong.
The retrovirus would likely be passed along in the semen and Infect the child, but there is no evidence that the genes ghouls pass on is altered. If you want to take a further example, in SR2 (Bug City) that some metahumans can resist the retrovirus, and though they may gain some physiological changes or become carriers, they are not ghouls. That's as close to "half ghouls" as you're going to get. The reason those exist is because unlike Goblinization, Ghouldom is a condition caused by a retrovirus. Ghouls are not a race unto themselves. It's a very different argument than why you can't have, say, half-elves or half-orks. Personally, I have no problem with someone in Shadowrun running around half-blind because of a close encounter with a ghoul. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Jan 22 2006, 06:54 PM
Post
#42
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Hamilton.LTG.on.ca Member No.: 2,853 |
What I'm saying ! is some times you guys/gals go way to far. And Critias you really have to tone it down, i'm not attacking anyone. You my fellow dump shocker have to stop trying to attack every one, i know you may be small in real life, but you have to try to stop being a tough guy on the forum, it's really really getting old. :eek: |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 22 2006, 07:21 PM
Post
#43
|
|||||
|
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
(1) I wasn't attacking anyone. You know what that looks like, and that wasn't it. Why knee-jerk and tell me to calm down, when I'm obviously not riled up? (2) How do we go "too far?" By expecting a little realism in our game? By examining, and noticing discrepancies within, the dark corners your average/casual gamer may not notice? Welcome to Dumpshock. That's what happens here. We don't just come here to chittity-chat and pat each other on the back over how awesome Shadowrun is, and how cool we are for playing it. We come here to look at it, discuss it, examine it closely, dissect it, tear it apart, talk about what we don't like as much as what we do. It's the internet. Expecting endless positivity is remarkably naive. (3) Don't say "I'm not attacking anyone" and then make ignorant, ridiculous, assumptions about how "small" I am in real life, or guesses as to how I act or why I act it on-line. You don't know me, you don't know anything about me. You don't know who I am or how I am, except for how I happen to act (in posts you notice, the negative ones, of course), on one little forum in one little corner of the internet (one little part of my life). We done? If not, take it (back) to PMs. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 22 2006, 07:24 PM
Post
#44
|
|||||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Hamilton.LTG.on.ca Member No.: 2,853 |
Man you have problems. Now I was'nt attacking any one, did i specifically name any one? But now i am attacking. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Jan 22 2006, 07:37 PM
Post
#45
|
|||||||||
|
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Quoted to keep Mister Platinum from editing to cover his tracks before moderators arrive. I'm also done posting to this thread until such a time as whatever-his-problem-is gets resolved. Sorry for the disruption, everyone. |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Jan 22 2006, 07:39 PM
Post
#46
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Hamilton.LTG.on.ca Member No.: 2,853 |
Man that is so week, i have nothing to hide, i'm not the one who said they like prison.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2006, 07:43 PM
Post
#47
|
|||||||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,010 |
That was so stupid I died a little. On the inside. |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Jan 22 2006, 10:33 PM
Post
#48
|
|
|
Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
:eek: or :rotfl: ?
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 26 2006, 09:05 AM
Post
#49
|
|
|
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Goddamn you are pathetic, Platinum.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 26 2006, 10:13 AM
Post
#50
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i agree with FrankTrollman re: overuse of misunderstood terminology. that said, retconning is part of the game, and at least the retcons can be forced into some semblance of sense with AH's explanation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 10th February 2025 - 10:10 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.