 NSRCG (Should it be upgraded to version 4)?, For the users of NSRCG only please |
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 Jan 22 2006, 11:50 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 243 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 774  |
For the users of NSRCG only please. Yes, I know that many very intelligent people don't need it :) but for those that do.
I need feedback if I'm to determine the demand and need for a version that supports SR4. As it stands now, I can finish up the work necessary to complete it (Complex Forms / Magical Allies) OR I can work on it. I've looked over the changes and unfortunately, SR3 Character Generation (CharGen) rules share very little with SR4 CharGen. This means any work would be from scratch. Given this, is there a need for it or are the existing efforts (Excel spreadsheets, online generation) sufficient? Hence the poll. I wanted to find out if there is any support for this from the community. |
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Jan 23 2006, 12:25 AM
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#2
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
While playing SR3, I used NSRCG almost exclusively to help keep track of the math for my character and also to help me backtrack and find page references to specific items (gear, metamagics, etc.)
The GUI that you created was simple and intuitive. Not to bad mouth the excel spreadsheets which are a good start, they don't have the same ease of use which the NSRCG did. They may get better as SR4 expands, and for all I know, someone may develop a firm GUI that uses the database created by the excel sheet in a year or two. Given a choice though, I'd stand behind your work McMackie. |
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Jan 23 2006, 01:27 AM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: 1-December 05 Member No.: 8,027 |
One of the chief complaints I have heard is how time consuming character creation can be. That much hasnt changed from 3rd to 4th.
The NSRCG has always been the tool of choice to get things rolling efficiently. Every shadowrunner I know immediately asked if NSRCG is available fro 4th ed, including me. All work, past, present, and future are greatly appreciated by untold throngs of SR Gamers. |
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Jan 23 2006, 01:41 AM
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#4
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Running, running, running Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,220 Joined: 18-October 04 From: North Carolina Member No.: 6,769 |
(slightly skewed viewpoint)
I dont currently play SR4, but, if i did, i would like to see the NSRCG be available for it. |
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Jan 23 2006, 02:09 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 25-May 05 Member No.: 7,414 |
Please finish polishing the SR3 version first!
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Jan 23 2006, 02:17 AM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 24-February 03 Member No.: 4,152 |
I would have to agree with previous poster. While the excel versions of SR4 generators work very well the GUI interface you provided added a dimension that is unparalled. I feel like a vote for SR4 would be somehow demeaning the excellent work you have done for SR3. Yours is the program all others are measured by and that said I would like to have a SR4 version of the NSRCG.
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Jan 23 2006, 02:35 AM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Columbus, OH Member No.: 302 |
Given the level of excellence that was acheived by you with the NSRCG, I can only hope that you choose to make a version for SR4. Seeing as my whole group uses the NSRCG now, it would be great to have something to go to when we switch to SR4.
But the final decision is yours. |
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Jan 23 2006, 03:33 AM
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#8
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Target Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 22-January 06 From: Winston-Salem, NC Member No.: 8,187 |
While I do believe the SR3 version does need to be completed, I wholeheartedly support upgrading the NSRCG to version 4. ;)
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Jan 23 2006, 06:26 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 10-February 04 Member No.: 6,068 |
I have been using and modifying one of the Excell Spreadsheet for charcater building , and it works pretty well. The key that makes me cry for an SR4 version of NSRCG is that after character build, there is little in the way to grow the character, since different rules apply for Character Improvement than for Chracter Initial Build.
Really would have loved the Magical Ally addition, but my group has moved on to SR4, so, I vote for SR4. |
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Jan 26 2006, 03:01 AM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
SR4 please. SR3 Magical Allies means supporting a subset of a subset of characters in SR3 for something that only impacts the character in dropping the Magic 1 point. First pass at SR4 means supporting a very large number of people who currently only have pencil and paper to grow a character. You have 17 people answering a poll asking for it within a couple days of posting, adjusting for the board being down, and it wasn't even advertised on the SR4 board.
Agreed. There isn't really anything built yet designed to grow the PC. Even implanted gear support is a bit limited. It would be extremely easy to create karma only character creation. First allow a character to be built with 0 BP. Then allow karma to purchase Contacts, Resources, and metahuman type. Resources are flat rate 5,000 nuyen/Build Point, so if you use the same 1:2 conversion as Qualities, which is fairly reasonable guess, you get 2,500 nuyen/karma. You could also use the same 1:2 conversion for Contact costs as well. But it is also a good opportunity to fix some of the cost Contact problems, which highly discourage purchasing Contacts. Metahuman type is going to take a bit more work, but 1:2 for each is a great place to start. The only problem I see at that point is what to limit Attributes to, since 50% of karma is very different than %50 BP. But a little analysis should give you the % of karma to cap at that should work just as well, and then feed that back into refining the metahuman type costs. |
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Jan 26 2006, 03:38 AM
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#11
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Oh, I just thought of one more karma only creation problem. Technomancers rely on the huge advantage of the way Build Points buy complex forms versus how karma buys them. They are bought up with karma and Build Points like SR3 spells were. Even with the advantage Technomancers start way behind mundane Hackers. Without that advantage I'm not sure how you would build a usable Technomancer.
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Jan 27 2006, 01:01 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 25-June 05 Member No.: 7,463 |
I have been a faithful user of your product since it first came out and view it as THE DEFINITIVE shadowrun character tool. heck i'd even be willing to buy a finished copy if I had to.
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Jan 27 2006, 01:44 AM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 16-January 06 Member No.: 8,166 |
I think it should be, but I think that 3rd should be finished off first.
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Jan 27 2006, 04:08 PM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 27-October 05 Member No.: 7,898 |
I think the NSRCG is a awesome piece of work, and it should be upgraded to version 4!
At the moment there are lots of people who prefeer SR 3 to SR4 or 4to3, but many people use the sr4 rules exclusively. I`d be happy to translate the datfiles of "NSRCG4" into german! |
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Jan 27 2006, 05:42 PM
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#15
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
I vote yes, if only from a GM's insane need to make highly detailed and levelable NPCs for the grand campaigns that I never get to run.
Seriously though, yes please. |
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Jan 29 2006, 04:27 PM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 6-February 05 From: Normal, Oklahoma, CAS Member No.: 7,057 |
Seriously, mcmackie, your work kicks much >>Explicit Deleted<<. Keep it up. NSRCG is Teh standard for SR3. It'd be highly appreciated if your work would continue to be utilized going on into the next SR version.
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Jan 29 2006, 05:02 PM
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#17
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
I'm newly back, but I have to say that I'm seriously missing NSRCG as a character creation method for SR4.
If you need someone to help build datafiles, just let me know. |
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Jan 30 2006, 10:21 PM
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#18
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Target Group: Members Posts: 1 Joined: 6-July 03 Member No.: 4,885 |
I can understand the want of the people still playing SR3 to have NSRCG added to/finished but SR4 is such an improvement to SR3. Having moved to SR4 I really miss being able to gen characters and NPCs quickly.
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Feb 2 2006, 04:20 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 176 Joined: 7-September 05 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 7,706 |
as long as the SR3 version would still be available i think it would make sense to "upgrade" to SR4. I mean, i don't even play SR4 but i think it's only fair... :cyber:
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Feb 2 2006, 01:16 PM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 36 Joined: 19-May 05 Member No.: 7,404 |
As long as 3rd ed version will still be tweaked and upgraded and supported I'm all for it.
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Feb 3 2006, 02:26 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
NSRCG was a marvelous piece of work that I used exclusively to keep track of PCs, lifestyles, build NPCs etc. It was soooo incredibly polished and easy to use I would beg you please update it to SR4. IMO the current SR3 incarnation is more than adequate for 99.9% of those that are choosing to remain with SR3. Great work all round, couldn't ask for better.
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Feb 3 2006, 03:11 PM
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#22
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
If it colors your decision, McMackie, you should know that I'm already about 50% of the way into development of an SR4 program. The big difference between yours and mine would be that mine's to be used entirely online. My goal is that if you or other develop SR4 programs that become widely accepted and used, that I would parse the character files of those programs so that they could be used in conjunction with my system which is, if anyone recalls it, the second version of the Dashifen Character Record System. This is not meant to dissuade you from working on an SR4 program, especially one that could be installed local to a user's machine, but just for your information (and so I can brag a little bit since I haven't started my own thread yet).
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Feb 3 2006, 05:56 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Well that is great. I just can't see how any program can even come close to NSRCG not necessarily in terms of character generation but overall management of lifestyles, karma etc.
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Feb 5 2006, 06:57 PM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 6-February 05 From: Normal, Oklahoma, CAS Member No.: 7,057 |
Just so we're clear, I imagine others have a problem with this bit as well, Dashifen. Wireless Internet is a lot of places, but it is not everywhere. We need a solid program that will run regardless of our link to internet access. |
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Feb 6 2006, 10:17 PM
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#25
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
That's what McMackie's would be for. I'm a web programer and feel pretty strongly that as long as one has a web connection, there's almost no reason to install local software anymore. The web provides a solution to more than one platform via an interface of one's choosing. And it provides a rich interface where images, text, audio, and video could all be used to provide a tool to the visior. Plus, I figure give it a few more years and some development on WiMAX or other similar 30+ mile (50 km) radius wireless access points and not having Internet access may become a thing of the past. 'Course, I do wear rose colored glasses, so I'm probably not the best person to chat with regarding web technology. </soapbox> All that aside, I made the post above not because I expected thousands to suddenly run to my web site and proclaim my mastery of all SR4 character generators, just so that McMackie would know that (a) I have somethin in the works if he wants to wait and see if it's widely accepted and/or (b) if he works on one, I'd like to work with his finished product to be sure that his characters can be imported into my program and vice versa. And, in the end, the Dashifen Character Record System was never meant to be a character generator and only a generator. It's primarily a tool for online gaming so that game masters can enter, store, update, etc. information about their games. Characters are just one step in that process. </hijack> |
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