mcmackie
Jan 22 2006, 11:50 PM
For the users of NSRCG only please. Yes, I know that many very intelligent people don't need it
but for those that do.
I need feedback if I'm to determine the demand and need for a version that supports SR4. As it stands now, I can finish up the work necessary to complete it (Complex Forms / Magical Allies) OR I can work on it. I've looked over the changes and unfortunately, SR3 Character Generation (CharGen) rules share very little with SR4 CharGen. This means any work would be from scratch.
Given this, is there a need for it or are the existing efforts (Excel spreadsheets, online generation) sufficient? Hence the poll. I wanted to find out if there is any support for this from the community.
BishopMcQ
Jan 23 2006, 12:25 AM
While playing SR3, I used NSRCG almost exclusively to help keep track of the math for my character and also to help me backtrack and find page references to specific items (gear, metamagics, etc.)
The GUI that you created was simple and intuitive. Not to bad mouth the excel spreadsheets which are a good start, they don't have the same ease of use which the NSRCG did. They may get better as SR4 expands, and for all I know, someone may develop a firm GUI that uses the database created by the excel sheet in a year or two.
Given a choice though, I'd stand behind your work McMackie.
Redshirt
Jan 23 2006, 01:27 AM
One of the chief complaints I have heard is how time consuming character creation can be. That much hasnt changed from 3rd to 4th.
The NSRCG has always been the tool of choice to get things rolling efficiently.
Every shadowrunner I know immediately asked if NSRCG is available fro 4th ed, including me.
All work, past, present, and future are greatly appreciated by untold throngs of SR Gamers.
Aku
Jan 23 2006, 01:41 AM
(slightly skewed viewpoint)
I dont currently play SR4, but, if i did, i would like to see the NSRCG be available for it.
The Stainless Steel Rat
Jan 23 2006, 02:09 AM
Please finish polishing the SR3 version first!
hunter5150
Jan 23 2006, 02:17 AM
I would have to agree with previous poster. While the excel versions of SR4 generators work very well the GUI interface you provided added a dimension that is unparalled. I feel like a vote for SR4 would be somehow demeaning the excellent work you have done for SR3. Yours is the program all others are measured by and that said I would like to have a SR4 version of the NSRCG.
Vagen Karrde
Jan 23 2006, 02:35 AM
Given the level of excellence that was acheived by you with the NSRCG, I can only hope that you choose to make a version for SR4. Seeing as my whole group uses the NSRCG now, it would be great to have something to go to when we switch to SR4.
But the final decision is yours.
Kanati Synge
Jan 23 2006, 03:33 AM
While I do believe the SR3 version does need to be completed, I wholeheartedly support upgrading the NSRCG to version 4.
KeyMasterOfGozer
Jan 23 2006, 06:26 AM
I have been using and modifying one of the Excell Spreadsheet for charcater building , and it works pretty well. The key that makes me cry for an SR4 version of NSRCG is that after character build, there is little in the way to grow the character, since different rules apply for Character Improvement than for Chracter Initial Build.
Really would have loved the Magical Ally addition, but my group has moved on to SR4, so, I vote for SR4.
Brahm
Jan 26 2006, 03:01 AM
SR4 please.
SR3 Magical Allies means supporting a subset of a subset of characters in SR3 for something that only impacts the character in dropping the Magic 1 point. First pass at SR4 means supporting a very large number of people who currently only have pencil and paper to grow a character. You have 17 people answering a poll asking for it within a couple days of posting, adjusting for the board being down, and it wasn't even advertised on the SR4 board.
| QUOTE (KeyMasterOfGozer) |
I have been using and modifying one of the Excell Spreadsheet for charcater building , and it works pretty well. The key that makes me cry for an SR4 version of NSRCG is that after character build, there is little in the way to grow the character, since different rules apply for Character Improvement than for Chracter Initial Build.
Really would have loved the Magical Ally addition, but my group has moved on to SR4, so, I vote for SR4. |
Agreed. There isn't really anything built yet designed to grow the PC. Even implanted gear support is a bit limited.
It would be extremely easy to create karma only character creation. First allow a character to be built with 0 BP. Then allow karma to purchase Contacts, Resources, and metahuman type. Resources are flat rate 5,000 nuyen/Build Point, so if you use the same 1:2 conversion as Qualities, which is fairly reasonable guess, you get 2,500 nuyen/karma. You could also use the same 1:2 conversion for Contact costs as well. But it is also a good opportunity to fix some of the cost Contact problems, which highly discourage purchasing Contacts. Metahuman type is going to take a bit more work, but 1:2 for each is a great place to start.
The only problem I see at that point is what to limit Attributes to, since 50% of karma is very different than %50 BP. But a little analysis should give you the % of karma to cap at that should work just as well, and then feed that back into refining the metahuman type costs.
Brahm
Jan 26 2006, 03:38 AM
Oh, I just thought of one more karma only creation problem. Technomancers rely on the huge advantage of the way Build Points buy complex forms versus how karma buys them. They are bought up with karma and Build Points like SR3 spells were. Even with the advantage Technomancers start way behind mundane Hackers. Without that advantage I'm not sure how you would build a usable Technomancer.
fionn
Jan 27 2006, 01:01 AM
I have been a faithful user of your product since it first came out and view it as THE DEFINITIVE shadowrun character tool. heck i'd even be willing to buy a finished copy if I had to.
Robotech Master
Jan 27 2006, 01:44 AM
I think it should be, but I think that 3rd should be finished off first.
omi_aoine
Jan 27 2006, 04:08 PM
I think the NSRCG is a awesome piece of work, and it should be upgraded to version 4!
At the moment there are lots of people who prefeer SR 3 to SR4 or 4to3, but many people use the sr4 rules exclusively.
I`d be happy to translate the datfiles of "NSRCG4" into german!
Jrayjoker
Jan 27 2006, 05:42 PM
I vote yes, if only from a GM's insane need to make highly detailed and levelable NPCs for the grand campaigns that I never get to run.
Seriously though, yes please.
Muerto8
Jan 29 2006, 04:27 PM
Seriously, mcmackie, your work kicks much >>Explicit Deleted<<. Keep it up. NSRCG is Teh standard for SR3. It'd be highly appreciated if your work would continue to be utilized going on into the next SR version.
TinkerGnome
Jan 29 2006, 05:02 PM
I'm newly back, but I have to say that I'm seriously missing NSRCG as a character creation method for SR4.
If you need someone to help build datafiles, just let me know.
Cyberserfer
Jan 30 2006, 10:21 PM
I can understand the want of the people still playing SR3 to have NSRCG added to/finished but SR4 is such an improvement to SR3. Having moved to SR4 I really miss being able to gen characters and NPCs quickly.
ChuckRozool
Feb 2 2006, 04:20 AM
as long as the SR3 version would still be available i think it would make sense to "upgrade" to SR4. I mean, i don't even play SR4 but i think it's only fair...
langolas
Feb 2 2006, 01:16 PM
As long as 3rd ed version will still be tweaked and upgraded and supported I'm all for it.
Solstice
Feb 3 2006, 02:26 AM
NSRCG was a marvelous piece of work that I used exclusively to keep track of PCs, lifestyles, build NPCs etc. It was soooo incredibly polished and easy to use I would beg you please update it to SR4. IMO the current SR3 incarnation is more than adequate for 99.9% of those that are choosing to remain with SR3. Great work all round, couldn't ask for better.
Dashifen
Feb 3 2006, 03:11 PM
If it colors your decision, McMackie, you should know that I'm already about 50% of the way into development of an SR4 program. The big difference between yours and mine would be that mine's to be used entirely online. My goal is that if you or other develop SR4 programs that become widely accepted and used, that I would parse the character files of those programs so that they could be used in conjunction with my system which is, if anyone recalls it, the second version of the Dashifen Character Record System. This is not meant to dissuade you from working on an SR4 program, especially one that could be installed local to a user's machine, but just for your information (and so I can brag a little bit since I haven't started my own thread yet).
Solstice
Feb 3 2006, 05:56 PM
Well that is great. I just can't see how any program can even come close to NSRCG not necessarily in terms of character generation but overall management of lifestyles, karma etc.
Muerto8
Feb 5 2006, 06:57 PM
| QUOTE (Dashifen) |
| The big difference between yours and mine would be that mine's to be used entirely online. |
Just so we're clear, I imagine others have a problem with this bit as well, Dashifen. Wireless Internet is a lot of places, but it is not everywhere. We need a solid program that will run regardless of our link to internet access.
Dashifen
Feb 6 2006, 10:17 PM
| QUOTE |
| We need a solid program that will run regardless of our link to internet access. |
That's what McMackie's would be for.
I'm a web programer and feel pretty strongly that as long as one has a web connection, there's almost no reason to install local software anymore. The web provides a solution to more than one platform via an interface of one's choosing. And it provides a rich interface where images, text, audio, and video could all be used to provide a tool to the visior. Plus, I figure give it a few more years and some development on WiMAX or other similar 30+ mile (50 km) radius wireless access points and not having Internet access may become a thing of the past. 'Course, I do wear rose colored glasses, so I'm probably not the best person to chat with regarding web technology.
</soapbox>
All that aside, I made the post above not because I expected thousands to suddenly run to my web site and proclaim my mastery of all SR4 character generators, just so that McMackie would know that (a) I have somethin in the works if he wants to wait and see if it's widely accepted and/or (b) if he works on one, I'd like to work with his finished product to be sure that his characters can be imported into my program and vice versa.
And, in the end, the Dashifen Character Record System was never meant to be a character generator and only a generator. It's primarily a tool for online gaming so that game masters can enter, store, update, etc. information about their games. Characters are just one step in that process.
</hijack>
TinkerGnome
Feb 6 2006, 10:43 PM
Dash, one thing I could suggest is that the folks working on generators talk about data file format (if you're going to have a need like that, which you might not) so that the gear files, for example, used in one program could easily find their way into another. This would let everyone in the community benefit from a single data entry effort.
=Spectre=
Feb 6 2006, 10:54 PM
I'm in the process of doing my first SR4 character with Excel, for the third remake. One of the problems with the character, has been keeping track of what bonuses are where. I actually had to reverse the creation process and start with fixed numbers(equipment, spells, Contacts) then Skills, Attributes and Pos Quals, which all fluctuate based on the hard numbers.
Given the massive alterations to the SR rulescape, I have to agree with the majority, that a simple gui interface that can track the alterations and prices we need would be a big step in bringing 4th ed into the lives of more Shadowrun fans. While I love 3rd, the hard truth is that it is no longer being supported. I would suggest releasing the source code to the SR community. Those who are die-hard 3rd fans(of which there probably are many) can use the code to build the add-ons you speak of. Meanwhile mcmackie, you could then devote yourself to 4th ed without feeling like you've left the 3rd ed people behind.
Kid Kaide
Feb 7 2006, 03:05 AM
Well I was asked by Drix to post up on here if NSRCG had made a difference in my life and if I enjoyed using it, which I have... Greatly. I can only stress so much how much of a help the program is. I mean it's revolutionary. All the other CG programs out there are -nowhere- as close to being as good as NSRCG is. I mean they're alright to tinker with but I honestly believe that NSRCG is the best one out there. It's thorough and has a pretty kick-ass interface. Come on guys! You've -got- to make one/upgrade the existing one for the new edition, you've just got to!
Club
Feb 19 2006, 12:03 PM
I want enough to promise another paypal donate (Admittedly a small one) when SRCG4 comes out
Solstice
Feb 21 2006, 03:59 AM
| QUOTE (Club) |
| I want enough to promise another paypal donate (Admittedly a small one) when SRCG4 comes out |
I'll for sure donate.
Dashifen
Feb 22 2006, 03:03 PM
| QUOTE (TinkerGnome) |
| Dash, one thing I could suggest is that the folks working on generators talk about data file format (if you're going to have a need like that, which you might not) so that the gear files, for example, used in one program could easily find their way into another. This would let everyone in the community benefit from a single data entry effort. |
True, but the format of something that I would do and something that McMackie would do are so vastly different that there would perhaps necessarily be some data manipulation necessary to make them talk to each other. All of what he did as the .dat files in the NSRCG are maintained in a series of database tables for me so I don't need files. Course, the database tables can be exported to files or populated therefrom so I could use them, but I'm also more than willing to write a parser for one person's .dat files to make them line up with what I would need. Not sure which makes more sense. If you want to chat about it, McMackie, drop me a PM
ronin3338
Feb 25 2006, 09:33 PM
I love NSRCG. My players that are computer savvy use and love it too.
Please bring your fine work to SR4, and I will be happy to make a PayPal donation.
Kyoto Kid
Mar 2 2006, 10:13 PM
Same here.
The Excel one works great for the basic number crunching, but it doesn't provide a finished character record. You still have to manually transfer all the data to another character sheet.
I also like the fact that the NSCG's character record is updatable as you play the character.
Paul
Mar 5 2006, 04:36 AM
Can the 4th Edition NSRCG-a program we use heavily and enjoy greatly, and love greatly- made while keeping the 3rd Edition version available for now? Or for a while-we hope, since we're still there.
E in MD
Feb 13 2009, 10:43 PM
If you need some help give me a ping. I'm a C# ninja and pretty good with C/C++ as well. I actually tried making my own generator in C# but it came apart when RL got hectic and I couldn't get any other coders to help me with it. It might make a good framework to start on if you're interested in collaboration.
E
gobogen
Mar 1 2009, 06:16 PM
I LOVE NSRCG
I used it all the time until I switched to 4th. Creating NPCs was very easy and so user-friendly. Creating a starting runner takes me about 2 to 3 times more time with the excel sheets than it used to with your great tool in 3rd.
The excel sheets lack a lot compared to NSRCG, which I wouldn't mind giving a small financial contribution for (anyone else with me on this?).
cryptoknight
Mar 2 2009, 03:49 PM
QUOTE (gobogen @ Mar 1 2009, 12:16 PM)
I LOVE NSRCG
I used it all the time until I switched to 4th. Creating NPCs was very easy and so user-friendly. Creating a starting runner takes me about 2 to 3 times more time with the excel sheets than it used to with your great tool in 3rd.
The excel sheets lack a lot compared to NSRCG, which I wouldn't mind giving a small financial contribution for (anyone else with me on this?).
Heck, I contributed to the beer fund for NCRCG 3.x I'd do it again for 4.x
Bai Shen
Mar 2 2009, 04:26 PM
Heh. I guess I should get off my butt and make a 4th ed char gen program. I was gonna make one for 3rd, but then I ran into the NSRCG. Since it seems noone has really made a SRCG4, I may give it a shot.
Stahlseele
Mar 2 2009, 08:24 PM
pity that old mcmackie doesn't post around these whereabouts anymore . . of course, most of the time he would be pestered about the NSRCG or to make a new one for SR4, but still . .
and i did not vote, as i would both like the completed works for SR3(i am still not playing SR4) and the new one for SR4 . . i hate the character creation in 4th, i just don't get it somehow . . and SR4 NSRCG would probably let me overcome that hurdle and maybe get me started playing . .
JaronK
Mar 11 2009, 10:24 PM
Well, I'm biased because I only play SR3, so I want that one fully polished instead of work going to SR4. For example, at least with the version I have shapeshifters often suddenly get made into non shapeshifters, freeing up 3 attribute points and generally screwing with things. This happens after you save, quit, and reload.
JaronK
tisoz
Mar 11 2009, 11:25 PM
QUOTE (mcmackie @ Jan 22 2006, 06:50 PM)
For the users of NSRCG only please. Yes, I know that many very intelligent people don't need it
but for those that do.
I need feedback if I'm to determine the demand and need for a version that supports SR4. As it stands now, I can finish up the work necessary to complete it (Complex Forms / Magical Allies) OR I can work on it. I've looked over the changes and unfortunately, SR3 Character Generation (CharGen) rules share very little with SR4 CharGen. This means any work would be from scratch.
Given this, is there a need for it or are the existing efforts (Excel spreadsheets, online generation) sufficient? Hence the poll. I wanted to find out if there is any support for this from the community.
Please leave the SR3 generator. People still use it.
If you do as fine a job with 4th edition as you did with the current generator, I am sure it would be quite useful.
Stahlseele
Mar 12 2009, 12:24 AM
and people still don't realize that it's been more than three years since that posting was made O.o
JaronK
Mar 12 2009, 07:42 PM
We can still dream!
Stahlseele
Mar 12 2009, 10:37 PM
ok, yes, i will give you that ^^
Bai Shen
Mar 13 2009, 08:55 PM
I knew it was old. I was just commenting on the fact that I should get around to making my own program since there's a new edition.
Stahlseele
Mar 13 2009, 09:25 PM
if you can do it in the same quality that the NSRCG is, then that just MIGHT persuade me to actually try and play SR4 . .
Bai Shen
Mar 14 2009, 11:52 PM
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 13 2009, 04:25 PM)
if you can do it in the same quality that the NSRCG is, then that just MIGHT persuade me to actually try and play SR4 . .
Heh. Well, don't hold your breath. I only have the base book, and haven't even really had a chance to read it with everything else I have going on.
blindfox
Apr 26 2009, 08:43 PM
sorry to butt in on whats supposed to be NSRCG users only, but i have been recommended to get my hands on the program for SR3.
ive poked around the history and such but cant find a good link. can anyone point a chummer in the right direction?
Stahlseele
Apr 26 2009, 09:50 PM
yes, i can.
look at my signature down there ^^
10gauge
Apr 27 2009, 02:13 AM
Or look at mine.