Corporate Extractions, What did I just sign? Options

[Grimtooth]

Ok here's the question.

What kind of employment contract would you sign that would not allow you to just up and quit or put in your 2 weeks notice?

Think about it. If i want to leave my job working for megacorp ABC i have to arrange an ILLEGAL extraction. Why did i sign the employment contract in the first place?

Random Thoughts :rotate:

[Jrayjoker]

Because your parents did it, and you have an identity within a large group. People like to belong...Also, citizenship is a major plus.

[stevebugge]

Short answer: M.I.C.E. I'll explain a little later.

With AA and AAA coprs being their own countries they can write their own labor laws, arguably the only reason they don't enforce slave labor is that they need customers and they haven't convinced the non-corp public to accept it. The other side of the argument says they do, they just sugar coat it. By 2070 there are probably a lot of people born in to the culture. Others may sign their soul away for personal gain, be it protection, money, an education etc. Not just anyone is "offered" these contracts, they typically go to individuals showing rare promise in some important field or another, you aren't likely to find a janitor with a lifetime contract, or even a 6 month contract for that matter.

[Kyoto Kid]

[Calvin Hobbes]

Bear in mind that the subjects of extractions are usually in sensitive areas. Joe Janitor is not going to be extracted because he could just quit. No one cares. People who need extractions either fear consequences for leaving or are being forcibly extracted (read: kidnapped). Or, in a couple of cases, merely crave the adventure or want to look important enough to be extracted, increasing their perceived job value.

Other reasons you may not be able to quit your job:

1) Extraterritoriality means corporations have the rights to prosecute you like a nation. Which means that you quitting could be considered light to medium treason.

2) Your manager keeps on destroying any record you want to quit because he/she is a jerk.

3) Computer error declares your sensitivity to be higher than it really is.

There's lots of problems that can only be cured by extraction.

[stevebugge]

OK to explain M.I.C.E. now that I've got a slow moment at the office again. It's an acronym from the intelligence business used to help people remember the 4 commmon methods of turning people to your side.

Money
Ideology
Coercion
Ego

Money is pretty self explanatory with why someone would sign the contract

Ideology would be the people who were born in to it and live and breathe corp culture

Coercion, try to leave and we will kill or imprison you and your family for disloyalty to the company

Ego, there are people who would sign the contract to feel important or needed

[SL James]

Because the IIRC 13th Amendment to the UCAS Constitution effectively legalizes slavery (oh, the irony!) by creating a system where runaway slaves ... er... I mean runaway slaves can be captured by the UCAS government and repatriated to their home corp to fill out their contract (which I assume is "lifetime" by default). If I understand Corp Download correctly, the Business Recognition Accords then made this the law in every signatory country to the BRA, so you not only have the corps on your ass, but the governments as well (well, except for all those oh-so-special European countries which get to function in spite of not signing the BRA or adhering to only a limited one. And here I thought the era of "Country X is so badass" died off back in 1998).

[Brahm]

Read Shadows of Asia? Europe doesn't have a lock on badass countries that openly thumb their noses at The Corporate Man and are still able to afford something better than rough leaves and twigs to wipe their butts.

[mfb]

don't think of it as taking a job you can't walk away from, think of it as what it really is: gaining citizenship in a nation on pretty favorable terms.

[SL James]

I've flipped through it a couple of times. The first time I laughed my ass off. The second time I almost started to cry. By the third time I had to stop myself from testing out patience of the losers working at B&N by seeing how far it flies when I finally broke down at took a look at Israel. I figured from my spot on the second floor I could throw that f-er into the Starbucks downstairs.

So... No. Not that I particularly care, nor does anyone writing the books anymore apparently give much of a rip about setting consistency.

[fistandantilus4....]

Also remember that in the sprawls, the poor are really freaking poor. I can see more than a few seeing a life time contract (well, until retirement) as a good peace of mind. And there are plenty of people that can file letters of reisgnation. Probably like breaking a lease contract, where there's penalties, like fines (or death *shhh*, don't tell) for breaking contract early.

[Brahm]

[Hell Hound]

[Edward]

The most obvious and reasonable cause to be unable to quit is corp. sponsored cyberwear. Lets say I get a job as a corp. rigger and want to quit. If I want to quit before the end of my 5 year contract I need to pay for the surgery to have the corp’s VCR removed, of cause if I have another corp. fund the extraction then they will want a 5 year contract and If I want to quit before the end of that I have to pay them back for the extraction.

Other reasons could include getting a lucrative research grant or high pay packet in a highly sensitive field, it is not uncommon today for contracts to specify a minimum period before you can work for the competition, it is only a small step to require you do not leave until the corporation deems your information of no consequence,

And then there are the unreasonable cases.

Edward

[Beaumis]

Well, basically you have to consider the world around you with these types of contracts.
Lets say you have the choice between having a secure job, steady income, place to life and guaranteed education and care for your familiy and having a not so secure job, possibly ending pay, having to worry about your kids education and security while retaining your freedom to leave wether you want to leave. Most people will probably pick the former.
And that's today, in SR security is a much larger issue than it is today. So is education.

On top of this comes the fact that areas where extractions happen are the peak of corporate interest. So we are talking about big science. People working in these areas get cyberware possibly magic and lots of expensive toys to work with. You wont trust someone with all that money if he could walk away with it tomorrow. A cranial cyberdeck, or even relativly simple mods such as encephalon and celebral booster are in the hundred thousands. That's on top of pay and all the other costs the research causes. Even today such people are emplyed via very hard contracts that guarantee the interest of the corp is secured.

Heck, the whole extraction thing is how cranial bombs came into beeing. That should pretty much tell you how serious corps are about their high class emplyees. As long as you work for them your every desire will be dealt with to your satisfaction, cross them and you go boom. Thats the hard version of contract for life.

Note: Im dealing in SR3. The badly done vampire rippoff that's SR4 has no part in my life. But even in SR4 the prices for cyberware are high enough to warrant corporate interest.

[nezumi]

Hell Hound and Edward brought up great reasons.

1) Currently corps oftentimes have clauses saying you cannot legally work in that field for a period of time (generally two years) after leaving the current employer.

2) Corps install a lot of equipment and money into you. Sure, some people wouldn't mind having the datajack removed and their headware memory blanked. But what about the trade secrets they know? If the corporation is paying you $200k annually (plus benies, which are very nice with big corps) to develop a cutting edge product, you'd better believe the contract is pretty solid in regards to the conditions of your termination. And they're paying you extra for that!!

3) Competition is up. Corps can always replace about 80% of their staff with someone of equivalent or better skills. The only problem is that first six months is a little less efficient than it could be with experience. I'm sure, especially with smaller corps, lay-offs are quite common and the Job Security fairy lives in at the North Pole with Santa. So if you are so easily replaced and you're offered a job that says 'we will hire you for the rest of your life (assuming no major screw-ups, and even then, they can just change your place in the corp), invest in you, take care of you, and you make the same commitment towards us,' you take it! It's just like the industrial revolution. You work 15 hour days at $.05 an hour because the alternative is you're out on the street or watching your back for that pink slip.

[Brahm]

[Beaumis]

I kinda doubt that. Once such a clause is part of a contract that you signed there isnt that much a judge can do unless the contract breaks higher ranking law. Im not exactly versed in US law, but im pretty sure there are ways to make this solid legally.

In the meantime, not the US, but still an example:
http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9333

[nezumi]

Funny, I've been told at job interviews (for normal pay, in the $60-70k range) that the employment clause includes not working for a competitor in that particular field for a period of two years. They didn't seem to be concerned about lawyers. Another friend just started a new business after waiting for his two years to be up. Even if this contract isn't legal (and I question that), it certainly seems to be strong enough that people obey it.

[Brahm]

[Beaumis]

[stevebugge]

There is not a set statute in the US for who pays the cost of a Lawsuit, it's usually decided as part of the resolution of the suit itself. This gives rise to a great deal of fairly longshot lawsuits. Due to the inertia of the US political system (and by extension the UCAS Political system) this is unlikely to have changed in 2070 Seattle. How is this relevant? Lawfirms can make good Johnsons. So the Megacorp employee isn't going to be able to sue their way out of a contract (because extraterritoriality means that the Corps law governs the contract) but rich corps make great targets for law firms, and a little "evidence" of wrongdoing can entice a lucrative settlement.

[Beaumis]

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[stevebugge]

I'm sure it's easier for the Law Firm Johnson if you plant something for them to find in discovery and don't live to tell about it ;)

Corps get sued all the time, most of the suits are dismissed as being without merit, a lot more are settled for relatively small sums. Very few go to trial, and even fewer make news. The big corps for the most part probably don't waste a lot of assets attacking the person bringing the Lawsuit, it's a matter of scale a big payoff to an individual is pocket change to a Corp. If the Individual agrees to drop their suit and clam up for half to two thirds of what it would cost to have them eliminated quietly, they probably just pay them.

[Beaumis]

That's what the fall guy is for.

Honestly, over the years there was so much dirt uncovered about the corps it aint even true and nothing bad happened.

For instance. Ares initiated a military operation on national grounds (meaning not even corp extratoriality helps them) to attack a nest of spirits, which resulted in a massive breakout that led to the quarantine on the city. They even detonated a nukelear warhead *within* the confines of the city. None knows how many casualities that little ops did cost, but Ares wasnt even charged with anything. At the least, every smalltime lawyer would have them for para-military presence and action within national territory. Worse actually, within the jurisdiction of another corp (Eagle security services, Chicagos version of Lone Star).
They werent charged in front of a national court for anything.
They werent charged in front of the corp court for anything.
They werent sued by any single person for this.

If a corp can get through with this, I doubt a bit of dirt about an extraction is going to harm a corp. And if there was the slightest chance it might ---> Fall guy. Leadership knew nothing.

"We are shocked by this news and will, of course, make immediate inquires in order to find those responsible and bring them to justice. In the mean time, we would like to advice the media to refrain from jumping to conclusions. At no time did anyone in the organisation of <corp> know of the illegality of this particular employment. We will find the perpetrator, and would like to anounce the forming of a new divison of internal data managment security in order to enure this does not happen again. bla bla bla propaganda bla lies bla bla, thanks for your attentions. We'll sue yours ass into debtors prison if you make any "false" aligations."

Thats the way it is. And quite honestly, it's not all bad. If it was any different, there wasnt any need for runners. :P