P or S which is better Options

[Darkness]

@Serbitar, now i get your meaning.
*Head->Table*

We assume a body 8, will 3 troll, wearing 8 points of armor, having a 12 boxes physical and 10 boxes stun track.

With conversion rules in Effect (as per the RAW), if he's defending against 6 points of damage every time he's hit, he will go down after 10 hits (assuming average successes). Because he will deflect 5 points of damage (converted to stun) every time.

If we now assume the conversion rules "out of order", no conversion takes place, and all other factors remain the same. He will then go down after 12 hits (again assuming average successes), because he now deflects 5 points of physical damage every time.

So yes, he would last longer if the conversion rules weren't in effect. What that means to the game balance is another issue. But i now understand why you consider them unbalanced.

[Brahm]

[Cold-Dragon]

I'm starting to lose track of what the heck we're all talking about now, heh. Maybe I should look back at the start...except this is turning into a two/three person fight now. I think I'll get the popcorn instead.

[TinkerGnome]

Serbitar, when framed in that narrow confine, you are definitely correct. Numerically it works out against the troll (though a smart troll should carry a high rating stim patch for just such an occasion) in that narrow case. The question is what amount of combat that case represents and what the benefits the troll stands to reap from the situation.

[Dr. K]

My physical adept runner dishes both out well. ;)

[ThatSzechuan]

[Serbitar]

[Crusher Bob]

Why not just join the two damage tracks? You get 8+(Body + will)/4 damage boxes (or whatever). Then just add your total damage taken togeter, if you fill up your damage boxes, your are incapacitated.

Example:
Joe Genero has 10 damage boxes
He takes 5 stun and 5 physical, he is KO'ed.

This rule may require some entension of the damage track +2-3 boxes?

[Cold-Dragon]

because if you do that, it sorta throws the whole' unconscious and living or unconscious and bleeding' bit out the window, and then it makes things more complicated as far as mages and several bits of ware go. How are you gonna adjust for that?

[Azralon]

Also you may as well call that a "hit point" system and remove the S or P designators completely.

Personally I like the two damage types, as it allows for a second dimension of damage-dealing. It could use some tweaks for added realism, sure, but at some point "ease of play" beats out realism.

[Crusher Bob]

On the other hand, the unified damage system makes it easier to beat someone unconscious whom you have shot several times first.

You can be 'dying' with your condition monitor full of physical, or you can just be unconscious, with your physical + stun equalling your number of damage points.

[Cold-Dragon]

You may as well cut the two bars in half or something then to help keep track or use the DnD numbers and make it officially hit point based on a low scale. :P Or something like that, heh.

[FrankTrollman]

Or you could use a single damage track and put a single line through a box if you suffer stun and put two crossed lines (that is, an "X") in the box if you suffer physical.

-Frank

[Darkness]

Like in the WOD-System? ;)

[Space Ghost]

Just like exalted.
Stun damage = /
Physical Damage = X

So if you have three boxes of stun it reads: / / /
If you take two boxes of Phys you put an extra line through the first two slashes, and add the extra slashes onto the end of the track: X X / / /

This could make for interesting situations. Lets say you are dying (but awake) when an X reaches (10+Body) boxes, and fall unconscious when a / or an X reaches (10+Will) boxes. If your char has a higher Will than Body, he might be dying while awake, which should happen now and then. Once you start mixing Phys and Stun, it becomes way more likely that you will pass out long before you die since the / is always at the end of the track.

But then a super-high body only keeps you from dying, but doesn't keep you from passing out... That would even the playing field for humans. Not sure if that's a good thing.

[Cold-Dragon]

there's a reason a troll is given an advantage over humans, as well as disadvantages. balancing them back out just makes them ugly humans. :P

You coulds till bleed to death while awake by a simple GM decision. perhaps a particularly powerful shot hit something vital, or else a called shot did it?

[Guest_MK Ultra_*]

I got the devious idea last night, to inflict an equal amount of stun, everytime someone suffers physical (but not the other way round ;) ). If armor is high enough, the char only suffers stun as usual.

That way, physical DV attacks would slow the opponent down much more than only stun. maybe its a bit heavy, have to test it, but I like my games a bit more deadly and I allways liked stimpatches and my players seldom use them :)

[Azralon]

We switched over from Fuzion to Shadowrun when the new SR edition came out, but Fuzion had an interesting damage-tracking element that I liked. That system (or at least, the version we were playing) also has two damage tracks. A tough human would have around 30 physical hit points and roughly equivalent stun hit points.

Basically for every 5 full points of physical damage you took, you also got a "free" point of stun. Likewise, for every 5 full stun you got a point of physical. If you took 4 or less points from any one attack, you didn't get any rollover damage.

Example: I kicked a guy for 9 points once. He marked down 9 boxes of stun and 1 box of physical. If I had managed to squeeze in an extra point somehow, he would have taken 10 boxes of stun and 2 boxes of physical.

That way you could beat someone down with your fists, and while they'd recover from the stun damage quickly there was still some comparatively minor trauma (cuts, abrasions, busted lips, etc.) that lasted for a while. Likewise if someone gets shot or stabbed a lot but not taken down, they'd have a chance to recover some stun and catch their "second wind" as the minor stun damage goes away long before the wounds are healed up.

Damage recovery was on a different scale than Shadowrun, though. Stun damage went away in a matter of seconds (so "stun" is more of a "shock and disorientation" thing) while physical damage healed at, like, one point per day.

Anyway, there's something else on the table for you guys looking for alternatives to the RAW's damage tracking.

[Guest_MK Ultra_*]

Interesting, I had ideas like this for a long wile, but never realized them in my games.

For SR, you could have 1 free for every 3 or so.

[Moon-Hawk]

Which, of course, makes things more deadly.

For a similar, but less deadly, option, you could shift every third or fourth box to the other track, rather than adding a "free" box.

[Guest_MK Ultra_*]

I like deadly. Gunfights and Knifestitching are deadly! :evil:

[Azralon]

[Space Ghost]

Is there any way that the shifted damage could be based on the armor you're wearing? Maybe add another stat for armor, or use a fraction of its rating...

[ThatSzechuan]

I'm considering a 2:1 conversion rather than a 1:1, and rounding as appropriate.

[Serbitar]