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 Feb 17 2006, 04:38 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 17-February 06 Member No.: 8,273  |
I have never played Shadowrun in any of its versions, though I have always been fascinated with it and the environment it simulates (big fan of Gibson's books :D )
. I have a small gaming group that I run other games in D20, old Marvel, nWOD stuff, . I am wondering if 4.0 is an "easy" enough game to pick up and run without much familiarity. I realize there will be a huge learning curve and re-reading the core book a few times to get a good grasp of where the info is located and how the game mechanics work out. Would anyone recomend jumping in on 4.0 or going back and finding 3.x in other places? I ask here because I've read mixed reviews. Many think the rules have been organized better and streamlined and then others think it has ruined the game and made it not as playable. Since I play nWOD I realize some peoples reaction is to the new but I want to find out if it is more than that. thanks for the info |
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Feb 17 2006, 04:52 PM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
Jump into SR4. That's my two cents at least.
Oh, and welcome to Dumpshock. Abandon all hope ye who enter here. :) |
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Feb 17 2006, 05:04 PM
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#3
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Look. The people who say SR4 made the game less playable hates nWOD and d20. Shadowrun is still not as easy to understand as those systems, even with the fourth edition. But at least it's a bit closer now. It's a perfect time to start up with Shadowrun. Get the new edition and every upcomming book (that you want). You'll be in the loop from the start.
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Feb 17 2006, 05:33 PM
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#4
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Running, running, running Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,220 Joined: 18-October 04 From: North Carolina Member No.: 6,769 |
I agree, SR4 is a good place to start fo a newbie.
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Feb 17 2006, 06:53 PM
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#5
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
[double post]
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Feb 17 2006, 06:54 PM
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#6
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
As people have noted the vast majority of the negative reviews have come from old timers and many of them think the system has been oversimplified and/or the developments in the game world break with the atmosphere of previous editions - ie. old time players. I've yet to see a negative review from a newcomer to the game, quite to the contrary in fact. For its faults most people agree that SR4 is the most friendly edition and has the easiest learning curve for new players.
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Feb 17 2006, 07:28 PM
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#7
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Not less playable. Less intelligent (or more specifically, treats players like idiots). And I hate oWoD, too. The whole line sucks. |
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Feb 17 2006, 07:37 PM
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#8
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Criminy. Let's not turn this thread into another "tastes great, less filling" debate, okay?
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Feb 17 2006, 08:47 PM
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#9
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
The only major, major objection I had making the change from SR3 to SR4 was going from "Skill + Pool" to "Stat + Skill." I just don't like the fact that a not-too-agile but highly skilled pistol shooter (Agil 2, Skill 5) is often just as effective as a stupidly agile but barely trained pistol shooter (Agil 6, Skill 1)... really doesn't sit well with me as a GM.
Asides from that, I do like the smoothness of the system, and a lot of the changes they made rolling into 4th ed from 3rd ed were for the better. Every version of the game had it's things that were broken, this one is no different... but it's easier to play. One of my players is completely new to Shadowrun (he had his second run last night), and he's learning very quickly, despite the added complication of playing a shaman his first time out. |
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Feb 17 2006, 08:54 PM
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#10
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Iīve played since SR2, and SR4 is definitly best. Those who donīt like SR4 had for the most part an, lets say "mathematical" attitude towards SR. If your group is into numbers crunching, SR3 would be better. Else, pick SR4.
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Feb 17 2006, 08:55 PM
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#11
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
The guys in my game who crunched numbers in SR3 still do it in SR4... the numbers are just simpler (and the curves smoother).
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Feb 17 2006, 09:01 PM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 97 Joined: 30-January 06 Member No.: 8,213 |
I can see where you are coming from but I know people who just are naturals at doing certain thing without training. The can shoot a gun for the first time at hit the bulleye whereas it takes most people years to develop to ablility. I game term a think that is why only six is allowed at chargen. |
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Feb 17 2006, 09:58 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 403 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Kill Em All Member No.: 2,018 |
Hey Synner, Im an oldtimer, and I love SR4. Tastes just like Chicken
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Feb 17 2006, 10:38 PM
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#14
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
I understand "natural aptitude" at things... but having a natural aptitude at every single thing that uses Agility (or the stat of your choice) has always seemed a little ridiculous.
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Feb 17 2006, 10:59 PM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 97 Joined: 30-January 06 Member No.: 8,213 |
Do you think the dice pools in sr3 solved that or do you think something else could be done?
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Feb 17 2006, 11:19 PM
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#16
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Slacker Extraordinaire Group: Retired Admins Posts: 337 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ashburn, VA Member No.: 997 |
I think the new edition of Shadowrun is a good game on its own, and I think right now is a great time to be getting into it. I hope you take the time to form your own opinion of the game, and welcome to dumpshock!
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Feb 17 2006, 11:35 PM
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#17
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
The closest thing to this in SR3 was the Combat Pool, with it's extrapolated value based on 3 stats I can't remember any more. Yeah, it was basically extra dice available to the character directly from his stats, but it was expressly limited to only being able to use as much Combat Pool on any given test as you had levels of the skill involved. I've bumped the idea of a house rule around that would limit players to only being able to use as many "stat" dice on a test as they had "skill" dice in it, but the amount of bitching I'd have to put up with really makes that not worthwhile. |
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Feb 17 2006, 11:44 PM
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#18
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Bullshit. I value RP above everything else (even when it's stymied by crap canon setting), but I prefer SR3 because it does make more mathematical sense whereas SR4 is more like "...and then a miracle happens." But, hey, the setting is presented in an even less consistent and sensical manner in SR4 than in any other edition of SR, so I have plenty RP reasons for not wanting to have anything to do with SR4. But since I'd have an easier time making my own game than fixing this, I'm just going to have to RP around the crap so long as I play with people who are canon-whores.
Well, if people are going to make generalizations about a group in which I am a part of (especially when they're wrong) then I feel pretty justified in responding to and correcting their crap. |
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Feb 17 2006, 11:48 PM
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#19
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Target Group: Members Posts: 97 Joined: 30-January 06 Member No.: 8,213 |
To bad that is a pretty good idea. |
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Feb 18 2006, 12:01 AM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 23-December 05 From: Fun City Member No.: 8,095 |
Well you can always just go with the suggested rules alterations for more gritty games with having the total success on a test limited to skill rank and defaulting to 1. I'd say that puts a damper the miracles and pick-up pros.
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Feb 18 2006, 12:21 AM
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#21
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Hm... that's really not a bad idea, *and* it's in the book. Works out a little smoother for the "natural aptitude" types, too... they're *more likely* to fill out their "max possible" successes than someone who's not apt, but the more skilled guy can succeed better, overall.
Also would reduce some of the brokenness that stems from physad "boost skill" dice. |
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Feb 18 2006, 01:00 AM
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#22
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Also note that as of the latest errata these are capped... |
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Feb 18 2006, 01:58 AM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Hamilton.LTG.on.ca Member No.: 2,853 |
Yeah I'm almost done all of the SR4 book and i must say it does look alot easier, and knowing SR1-3 also makes it so much easier to understand also.
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Feb 18 2006, 03:50 AM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
I am an oltimer from SR2, too. ANd I like SR4.
Thats why Im doing all this houseruling stuff: Because its work that can be done in a finite ammount of time. Not like SR3 where one would have to reinvent the whole system. |
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Feb 18 2006, 04:40 AM
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#25
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
I direct your attention toward:
Would you care to explain how it's possible that it not? Other than collecting up the opinions of others and deciding which set you like better (based on color, scent, pattern, and texture, I suppose), the only way to actually gather enough facts* to form your own opinion would be to read and play both. Asking "3 or 4" is only going to start an edition debate. Also:
Patently silly. *The term "facts" is used loosely in this case, of course, to describe personal opinions based on actually having experience with the subject at hand. This is opposed to the use of "opinion" in this post, which is to be read as "hot air, but the hot air that the individual posting it believes". |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 2nd May 2024 - 06:37 AM |
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