 How do you deal with forensics |
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 Feb 21 2006, 03:34 AM
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#26
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Great Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383  |
Actually, I'm pretty sure that the fact you used a white phosphorous grenade would be a really big clue for the law. My understanding is that in arson cases the incindiaries used provides a lot of information about the arsonist. |
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Feb 21 2006, 03:41 AM
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#27
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
According to most of the interrogation manuals I've read, most people are caught because they confess. This isn't to say that they account for most of the crimes, just most of the people who are convicted.
In fact as I understand it Forensics, while interesting on shows like CSI, don't account for the majority of convictions. Although I am certain they don't hurt, right? |
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Feb 21 2006, 05:01 AM
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#28
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
They do if your local crime lab is run with less controls than a Cambodian whorehouse.
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Feb 21 2006, 05:28 AM
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#29
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
LOL! I was sooo not expecting you to use that imagery/comparison... hilarious. :-) |
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Feb 21 2006, 05:50 AM
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#30
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Ironicly, it isfar easier to get an innocent and unsophisticated person to confess than it is to get a hardened criminal to do so. This makes me wonder how many naive wage slaves are sitting on death row for jobs commited by runners. Certainly, Lone Star has to keep its arrest and conviction rates up somehow.
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Feb 21 2006, 11:24 AM
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#31
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
Unless I have an in-game reason for wanting the PCs to pick up some heat/have a wronged corp get after them, or they did something really dumb and I feel they need a warning, then I'd say very little would actually come from forensic investigation. Otherwise, I really don't feel the need to make sure that no one left a fingerprint anywhere, or that no one shed hairs when adjusting their baseball cap.
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Feb 21 2006, 11:51 AM
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#32
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Rating 3 DNA masking: Availability 8; :nuyen: 22,500; Bioindex 0
The look on the pigs' faces when their Sony Scanbuddy rule-o-one's against you: Priceless |
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Feb 21 2006, 12:09 PM
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#33
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Not when it's a close approximation to reality. |
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Feb 21 2006, 02:40 PM
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#34
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Why does this not look familiar to me? Is it one-shot nanoware, or SR4 stuff? |
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Feb 21 2006, 04:11 PM
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#35
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Its permenant genetech from SOTA 2063. When you have DNA masking DNA scanners have to make an opposed test using their rating against your masking's rating to correctly ID you. The best DNA scanner available has a rating of 9. The Sony Scanbuddy has a rating of 2. DNA masking has no rating limit. One could get hundreds levels of masking, in theory.
There is a flat .1 bioindex cost for levels above 3 and .2 for level above 10. Every level above 10 also costs 20,000 :nuyen: meaning that if you can afford the absurdly good stuff then a megacorp owns you. |
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Feb 21 2006, 08:13 PM
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#36
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
MY NPC with DNA Masking 15 scoffs at you and walks off. Yes, it may be .2 Bio Index, but once the die is cast and they're going to lose magic, what's another .2? Besides, the .2 BI also adds +1 to Linking Tests using ritual magic. |
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Feb 22 2006, 12:35 AM
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#37
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Target Group: Members Posts: 29 Joined: 5-May 05 From: in the warm blue glow of my computer monitor Member No.: 7,375 |
Well, This may have been said, but my outlook on forensics is that they usually use evidence and then link it to motive and all that. The person usually is connected in some way. With the discrete hiring methods and selection methods used to get runners, and lack of previous contact with victim(s). most of that is bunk. So they may find a few bullets... hard to do a rifling test on a gun they never saw before, or know where to look for. They might connect you to another run or two.. but most of the time no theme would be involved there. Also, apds ammo and flechette react in a way when fired that no rifling would be found. Astral stuff faids away so they have to get there soon to get anything there. And as long as no runner gets hurt (bleeds) no dna evidence would really be left. Like someone would be suspicious of a hair left in a corp building. If your characters are careful, masks, bleach bottle in case of blood, and selective about bullets fired or carry unliscensed guns. There really isn't much outsife of eye witnesses to tie them to the run. Masks, and unconsciousness/death fix that problem.
I have a character I am playing now. Wiz with his dual heavy pistols. I am gonna buy him a mask and gel rounds. No death, no blood, no memory of my face. Buy cheap shoes that dont leave unique footprints, wear full clothing so no hair falls out. And since my runs are basically random, they really cant connect me unless they follow me from the scene. I get in and out quick, noone follows, and thanks to my rented out coffin I have a secure place to hide from the star while they try and figure out wtf happend. |
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Feb 22 2006, 02:13 AM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 384 Joined: 18-August 03 From: North VA Member No.: 5,519 |
Quite well thought out. Love Trolls aside, I've been avidly reading this thread. It's been a big help to my thoughts on a very important part of Shadowrun that is often overlooked. Rock on, everybody! 8) |
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Feb 22 2006, 02:37 AM
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#39
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Gorb. I get so damn tired of PCs always "doing everything in full bodysuits and wearing gloves and making sure they wipe things off and vacuuming the carpet and tidying the flowers". It gets so fucking annoying. Not because I want to be able to go "HAW HAW HAW YER SO DUMB YOU TOUCHED A GLASS AND YER EYELASH FELL OUT", but because it basically boils down to them thinking that all I want to do is fuck with their characters, and that I don't want the story to be interesting and make sense.
That, and about the fiftieth time they go through the explanation of how "they can't possibly have left any evidence", I want to smack someone. I've basically decided "fine, you don't want interesting story and things to do, then waste an hour of game time arguing with me over how your character "would obviously have worn gloves" although you've never mentioned it until now. Fucking annoying tripe. Constantly having PCs meticulously cover every square inch of their body is equally annoying as constantly having the cops show up at their doorstep for not lint-rolling their ski mask. |
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Feb 22 2006, 03:34 AM
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#40
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
10+ is avvailability 18. 3 is available is chargen. Given its price there is no excuse for any PC with resources A or B not to have it. |
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Feb 22 2006, 04:42 AM
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#41
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Bah. Chargen... |
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Feb 22 2006, 03:24 PM
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#42
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Have you considered telling them out of character, 'the police will not use forensics against you'? It sounds like they may be working on in-game considerations, while you're looking at OOC considerations. No wonder you don't see eye-to-eye! |
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Feb 22 2006, 08:02 PM
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#43
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
A trained interrogator would, or rather should which doesn't guarentee anything, look for signs of a person who is confessing for the wrong reasons, or because of stress, or fatigue. This doesn't mean everyone gets interrorgated, or even those that do get interrogated get interrogated by someone skilled or who cares enough to stop some jack ass from confessing because he needs to feel wanted. |
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Feb 22 2006, 08:18 PM
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#44
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Target Group: Members Posts: 29 Joined: 5-May 05 From: in the warm blue glow of my computer monitor Member No.: 7,375 |
There are more ways to make a storyline interesting, you don't need the star to show up to make a plot twist.. write them in that don't depend on the character. You gotta think these characters should be professionals. This is usually what they do for a living, so it makes sense to have them take it seriously. If they don't, it's not only their job, it's their lives. Expecting them to not do it is unrealistic roleplaying, they wouldn't be true to their characters. Just look for some new ways to suprise them, throw in some stuff on the astral, maybe some subplot on the J, maybe he set them up. Maybe someone found out they were coming. There are tons of ways to make interesting storylines, and genius-proof ways to screw with your PC's. Get more evil ;-) |
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Feb 23 2006, 01:27 AM
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#45
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
That's just it though. It's not as though LS would NEVER have a lead on them. It's also not as though LS ALWAYS has a lead on them. My gripe is that no matter the character concept, character background, or character attitude, they inevitably wind up in L337 ninja suits and talking about how they'll never leave evidence behind. Regardless of whether this makes sense, or whether the characters have any reason to be this paranoid (other than that they're doing illegal things), they still do it. And it's not always all at once. Usually, one PC starts ninja-suiting it all the time, and so the other players jump on that as justification for their character to ninja-suit it, etc, etc, etc. nt326, I appreciate the comments, but it's not as though I can't GM without having LS show up to bust the PCs. That's actually part of my irritation (that the players seem to think that I'm just itching to put the heat on them). As far as the "being professionals" thing goes, I just spoke to that. It wouldn't matter if the character was a 15 year old gutter-trash rat-shaman that only bathes when the other PCs toss him in a river, and it was his third run ever. Ninja-suit. (And to be fair, it's not a constant, over-arching issue. It's more of a "side-line annoyance". It's there, so I just work around it.)
I'm pretty happy with the stories. I'm not there to screw the PCs. I don't GM to be evil. I prefer providing a realistic game, within the boundaries of the system/story/etc, to being evil. |
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Feb 23 2006, 02:48 AM
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#46
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Yes, this is what is called institutional knowledge. One PC with the forensics skill shows up, and goes on the run in his ninja suit, and all the other pcs find out why he wore the ninja suit and they say, "That's a good idea". Then everyone is wearing ninja suits.
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Feb 23 2006, 05:16 AM
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#47
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
If one of them had anything remotely resembling a forensics skill, maybe.
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Feb 23 2006, 06:05 AM
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#48
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
I'll point out that if any of them have dermal sheathing, they won't need the ninja suit, because the sheathing replaces their skin- no more shedding of dead skin particles, no more (real) hair, etc. They're also less likely to get cut by minor things.
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Feb 23 2006, 07:03 AM
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#49
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Target Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 23-December 05 From: Fun City Member No.: 8,095 |
@nick012000: Dermal sheathing is BONDED to the skin, not a full replacement for it.
Now if you wanted to go full borg... On the topic of ninja suits: Like that's going to stop everything, if you wanted to stop all forms of physical identification from showing up you should go and rock out in a full hazmat suit (a breach will ruin this, but then the same thing with "ninja suits"). |
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Feb 23 2006, 07:05 AM
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#50
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
Has anybody ever come up with rules for the mundane sterilise spell
Gas grenades filled with very strong bleach, cloren or some other powerful sanitiser. You could even do it with bug bombs but then it could be stoped buy an astute security guard. Edward |
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