 Skill Ratings: Modified vs. Bonus, Are you sure you know the difference? |
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 Feb 22 2006, 11:23 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 371 Joined: 10-January 06 From: Regina Member No.: 8,145  |
I picked up on something that was clarified in the lastest errata (v 1.3) and I wanted to make sure everyone else was aware of it as well.
In SR4 there is (now) a clear distinction between a modification to a skill rating and a bonus to a skill rating. The errata re-wrote 2 very key paragraphs on pg. 63 and pg. 109 that talk about the difference. The most important point is that an implant, power, or ability that modifies a skill rating has a limit: the modified skill rating cannot exceed the BASE rating by more than 1.5, rounded DOWN. That means that for your Gunslinger Adept to have a modified Pistols skill of 9, he/she must have a the base skill at 6. This distinction also makes other ablities, like Kinestics, way more powerful as they provide bonus dice and thus, can "improve" something an unlimited amount. I just wanted to make sure everyone else saw what I saw. |
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Feb 22 2006, 11:33 PM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
I've seen it and I dont like it. Especially the part where they say that you add the rating (reflexrecorder . . .) when advancing your skills.
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 Feb 23 2006, 07:34 AM
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#3
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 8,981 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
I havn't seen a lot of skill rating modifiers. Is there anything besides Reflex Recorders (which I find ok to hinder learning, actually; makes sense, that those artificial reflexes can get in the way and thus make things a bit more difficult)?
Bye Thanee |
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Feb 23 2006, 08:31 AM
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#4
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
The Adept Power of course.
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Feb 23 2006, 10:26 AM
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#5
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 8,981 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
- deleted, because it was false -
Bye Thanee |
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Feb 23 2006, 10:58 AM
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#6
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Ah, yes this means that Mr. Scary, the not-fully optimized starting social adept can only roll 23 dice when telling you that you "REALLY WANT TO GIVE HIM ALL OF YOUR MONEY" (Cha 7 (elf) + Con 6 + specialization (2) + improved ability (3) + Kinestics (5)) :love:
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Feb 23 2006, 11:05 AM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
They increase the skill level, you cant go higher than 9 (10 with special) with his. Read errata 1.3 for more info. |
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Feb 23 2006, 11:20 AM
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#8
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 8,981 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Ahh... Improved Ability has been errata'ed as well. My bad. :)
Bye Thanee |
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Feb 23 2006, 03:30 PM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
The errata was mostly just removing the part that was confusing, the extra limit that never came into effect. |
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Feb 23 2006, 07:28 PM
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#10
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
For the record there is actually no such thing as a "bonus to skill rating" in SR4. There are modified skills and bonus/dice pool modifiers. The former are capped, the latter aren't. |
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Feb 24 2006, 06:58 AM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Crusher Bob is right about how ugly it can get with the adept power of kinesics, which is only limited by the Magic Attribute, and which can also stack with improved ability in social skills. In a campaign where the GM doesn't sharply delineate what can, and can not, be done with social skills... the social adept is the ultimate munchkin.
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Feb 24 2006, 07:23 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 72 Joined: 28-March 05 Member No.: 7,251 |
Does this rule also apply to attributes? Ie. If an attribute is at rating 4, is the modified maximum a rating 6? |
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Feb 24 2006, 07:43 AM
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#13
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
AFAIK, stats are only limited to the augmented max (Max x 1.5) so it's possible to have a natural reaction of one and use reaction enchancers, etc to get your reaction all the way up to 9. This works best for reaction, as there is plenty of stuff out there that will modify it.
A proposed house rule that makes more sense is to make the augmented max of a stat the current stat +3. It removes some rounding issued and means that you can't have the reaction 1 (9) guy anymore. |
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Feb 24 2006, 12:39 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 297 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 248 |
No. Attributes aren't subject to this. Only skills have the (base stat *1.5) limitation. |
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Feb 24 2006, 12:45 PM
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#15
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 8,981 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Would the Synthacardium be counted as bonus dice? I think so, but I'm not entirely sure. :)
i.e. could you have Athletics 1 and Synthacardium-3 for 4 dice + AGI/STR? Bye Thanee |
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Feb 24 2006, 05:04 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 297 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 248 |
It's pretty cleary labeled as "bonus" and "dice pool modifier". So it's not limited, it just adds up. And yes, it would work as you describe. |
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Feb 24 2006, 05:21 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 371 Joined: 10-January 06 From: Regina Member No.: 8,145 |
I just thought of something I'm not clear about. Can you get Improved Ability for a skill that you have as part of a Skill Group? The rules seem clear that you can get Bonus Dice to a skill inside of a Group but I'm not sure about modifying a skill inside of a group.
If you can, what improvement cost would you pay? |
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Feb 24 2006, 05:26 PM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
why shouldnt you ?
After you applied improvements the groupd is considered split up. |
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Feb 24 2006, 05:43 PM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Think of it as raising your skill with money instead of karma. If I have a natural 5 in Unarmed and I'm really looking forward to getting a 6, then I have two routes. I can either spend 12 karma, or 10k nuyen and .1 Essence. Obviously it's not going to be as good of a tradeoff if you have a natural 2 in the skill and had a choice between 6 karma or 10k nuyen + .1 Essence. In some cases (depending on your available resources and long-term goals), that'll be more desirable. In some, not. In any case it's good to have options to choose from. What it does do in the case of "long-view" adepts is make them seriously think about raising their skill up to a 6 (or 7 with Aptitude) and only then start getting levels in Improved Ability. The end result can be the same as if they started with Improved Ability, but the karma costs will be noticeably different. That might seem inequitable (read: unfair), but it's a matter of if you want immediate performance gains or if you're okay with a slower but more efficient advancement. |
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Feb 24 2006, 05:54 PM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 59 Joined: 19-February 06 Member No.: 8,279 |
Specialize in seduction and you have a gigolo adept. Oh, and put him on his Home Ground for 2 more dice. "I have a license for that assault rifle, officer. And to prove it to you I will sex you up!" |
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Feb 24 2006, 05:57 PM
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#21
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Allright that's twenty-five dice, twenty-five, do I hear twenty-six, anybody build twenty-six? Twenty-six dice for a social task from a starting character, I've got twenty-five, from the home-ground-gigolo, going once....going twice......
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Feb 24 2006, 05:59 PM
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#22
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
So, uh, exactly where is his Home Ground? Or is that something that I shouldn't ask? :| |
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Feb 24 2006, 06:08 PM
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#23
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Exceptional Attribute: Charisma. Go ahead and buy up the 9 Cha in chargen as your one capped attribute. If there were room for both Aptitude: Con and Home Ground, I'd get 'em both, but HG is the better buy for our purposes. Oh, and go ahead and get Magic capped so you can burn a point of it for pheromones. |
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Feb 24 2006, 06:48 PM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 59 Joined: 19-February 06 Member No.: 8,279 |
Whatever it is, it involves lots of red lights and loud noises. |
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Feb 24 2006, 07:07 PM
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#25
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Target Group: Members Posts: 59 Joined: 19-February 06 Member No.: 8,279 |
Con (seduction +2): 6 (Improved Con +2) (+2 Trickster Mentor Spirit)(+2 Home Ground)(+2 First Impression)(+1 kinesics)(8 cha, 5 + 3 pheromones) = 25 dice, 27 if burning minimum starting Edge And Mr. Gigolo is a Mystic Adept with a Spellcasting ability of 5 (also Magic 5, Ess 5.2). He has Control Emotions, so that's a maximum of -5 dice to an opposing social test! Oh, and he wears Trid Phantasm clothing with nothing underneath. |
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