Skill Ratings: Modified vs. Bonus

Skill Ratings: Modified vs. Bonus, Are you sure you know the difference?

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hobgoblin

Feb 24 2006, 07:32 PM

Post #26

panda!

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QUOTE (Azralon @ Feb 24 2006, 06:43 PM)

That might seem inequitable (read: unfair), but it's a matter of if you want immediate performance gains or if you're okay with a slower but more efficient advancement.

somhow that sounds familiar...

oh and the gigolo adept makes me want to go

:eek: :silly: :notworthy: :rotfl: :scatter: :wobble:

all at ones...

Shrike30 View Member Profile	Feb 24 2006, 08:48 PM Post #27
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98	I've got a kinesics 5 adept in the game I'm running (he blew his 6th point of magic on Synaptic Accelerator 2). What I've come to discover is that while he is at a distinct advantage trying to talk relatively friendly people into things, those modifiers (such as "NPC suspicious of PC" and "Action potentially damaging/dangerous to NPC") on the social interactions table can really quickly take a chunk out of that huge dice pool. Basically, he still stands a chance of talking his way past someone who's on the lookout (as opposed to Joe Shadowrunner, who would probably get stopped). Of course, when the Shivers are yelling at you to "Put your fraggin' hands against the wall!" they're not really listening to you in the kind of way that lets you easily make a Social test. :vegm: And the penalties you incur on a test if, say, Mr Lone Star spotted blood on the backseat of your car are pretty severe, too.

Azralon

Feb 24 2006, 08:51 PM

Post #28

Shooting Target

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QUOTE (Frackula)

Oh, and he wears Trid Phantasm clothing with nothing underneath.

Him too?

Brahm

Feb 24 2006, 09:06 PM

Post #29

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QUOTE (Shrike30)

Of course, when the Shivers are yelling at you to "Put your fraggin' hands against the wall!" they're not really listening to you in the kind of way that lets you easily make a Social test. :vegm: And the penalties you incur on a test if, say, Mr Lone Star spotted blood on the backseat of your car are pretty severe, too.

You too? Yes, guards with their weapons drawn seem to close their minds to the intellectual give and take of reasoned discusion. :(

Shrike30 View Member Profile	Feb 24 2006, 10:41 PM Post #30
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98	"Shouldn't I get to make a Negotiation Opposed test here, or something?" "The Shiver really isn't interested in participating in a Negotiation test with you. He might be more interested in talking to the back of your head once you're on the concrete in cuffs."

Glyph

Feb 25 2006, 03:53 AM

Post #31

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QUOTE (mdynna)

I just thought of something I'm not clear about. Can you get Improved Ability for a skill that you have as part of a Skill Group? The rules seem clear that you can get Bonus Dice to a skill inside of a Group but I'm not sure about modifying a skill inside of a group.

If you can, what improvement cost would you pay?

The gunslinger adept sample character does exactly that, so it's obviously possible. Post-errata, though, it makes improving a skill group with one or more modified ratings into a logistical nightmare. I have no idea how you would calculate the cost of raising such a skill group.

Glyph

Feb 25 2006, 04:16 AM

Post #32

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QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)

Allright that's twenty-five dice, twenty-five, do I hear twenty-six, anybody build twenty-six? Twenty-six dice for a social task from a starting character, I've got twenty-five, from the home-ground-gigolo, going once....going twice......

Elf with 7 Charisma (since only one stat can be maxed out, and it will be Magic for this build) and 6 Magic (but reduced to 5 from bioware). Qualities: Adept, Aptitude/Con, First Impression, Home Ground, and Mentor Spirit (Seductress). Get Con at 7 and specialize in Seduction. For adept powers, get Kinesics: 5 and Improved Ability/Con: 3. For bioware, get Tailored Pheromes: 3.

That's 7 (Charisma) + 7 (Con) + 2 (specialization) +2 (Home Ground) +2 (First Impression) +2 (Mentor Spirit bonus) +5 (Kinesics) + 3 (Improved Ability) +3 (Tailored Pheromes) = 33 dice. :love:

Frackula

Feb 25 2006, 07:15 AM

Post #33

Target

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QUOTE (Glyph)

QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)

Allright that's twenty-five dice, twenty-five, do I hear twenty-six, anybody build twenty-six? Twenty-six dice for a social task from a starting character, I've got twenty-five, from the home-ground-gigolo, going once....going twice......

Elf with 7 Charisma (since only one stat can be maxed out, and it will be Magic for this build) and 6 Magic (but reduced to 5 from bioware). Qualities: Adept, Aptitude/Con, First Impression, Home Ground, and Mentor Spirit (Seductress). Get Con at 7 and specialize in Seduction. For adept powers, get Kinesics: 5 and Improved Ability/Con: 3. For bioware, get Tailored Pheromes: 3.

That's 7 (Charisma) + 7 (Con) + 2 (specialization) +2 (Home Ground) +2 (First Impression) +2 (Mentor Spirit bonus) +5 (Kinesics) + 3 (Improved Ability) +3 (Tailored Pheromes) = 33 dice. :love:

Congratulations sir, you've gone beyond Gigolo, and have invented the Pornomancer Adept.

GM: Three guards at the door. They want to see your SIN.
ADEPT: Are they women?
GM: No.
ADEPT: Are they gay?
GM: No.
ADEPT: I'm going to seduce them anyway. *rolls 28 successes* They're gay for me now! I release my godlike tower of man-meat, and it is pleased.
GM: Stop! Stop!
ADEPT: I say to the guards: "Behold my enormous SIN!"
GM: Every police station in town saw your SIN. Lone Star surrounds you. They're about to arrest you for violating every public nudity law ever made.
ADEPT: No problem. I seduce them too.

Darkness View Member Profile	Feb 25 2006, 02:14 PM Post #34
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 297 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 248	:rotfl:

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Feb 25 2006, 02:53 PM Post #35
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	hmm, shivers? when did we go from shadowrun to SLA industries?

Brahm View Member Profile	Feb 25 2006, 03:26 PM Post #36
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006	Reathanol flashback.

Shrike30 View Member Profile	Feb 25 2006, 07:33 PM Post #37
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98	Hey, Shivers were/are the shit.

Larsine

Feb 26 2006, 10:47 AM

Post #38

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QUOTE (Glyph)

Elf with 7 Charisma (since only one stat can be maxed out, and it will be Magic for this build) and 6 Magic (but reduced to 5 from bioware). Qualities: Adept, Aptitude/Con, First Impression, Home Ground, and Mentor Spirit (Seductress). Get Con at 7 and specialize in Seduction. For adept powers, get Kinesics: 5 and Improved Ability/Con: 3. For bioware, get Tailored Pheromes: 3.

That's 7 (Charisma) + 7 (Con) + 2 (specialization) +2 (Home Ground) +2 (First Impression) +2 (Mentor Spirit bonus) +5 (Kinesics) + 3 (Improved Ability) +3 (Tailored Pheromes) = 33 dice. :love:

It's true that you can max only one stat, but this is specifically mentioned under "Physical/Mental Attributes" (P. 73), and since magic is a special attribute I don't think it counts. Just like the 200 BP max for Physical/Mental Attributes.

So you could potentially build a Charisma 8 elf, and end up with 34 dice. It's a shame about the Exceptional Attribute costing 20 BP, otherwise that would be one extra die hidden here :)

Lars

Glyph View Member Profile	Feb 27 2006, 02:16 AM Post #39
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449	It's kind of an ambiguously worded rule, but you could interpret it as applying only to the Physical/Mental Attributes. Meh, I dunno if I'd do it, anyways. 33 dice is nice, but 34 dice is kind of edging into munchkin territory, ya know?

fool View Member Profile	Feb 27 2006, 10:41 PM Post #40
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 588 Joined: 27-February 06 Member No.: 8,316	:love:kinesics 3 with control thoughts at spell casting three and don't forget that sultry voice using voice control

hobgoblin

Feb 27 2006, 11:36 PM

Post #41

panda!

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QUOTE (Glyph)

It's kind of an ambiguously worded rule, but you could interpret it as applying only to the Physical/Mental Attributes.

Meh, I dunno if I'd do it, anyways. 33 dice is nice, but 34 dice is kind of edging into munchkin territory, ya know?

i just orderd myself a copy of SR4 and a box of 36 D6, i pray that i never have to use them all in one go...

ryanstone View Member Profile	Feb 27 2006, 11:58 PM Post #42
Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 5-December 05 Member No.: 8,045	In regard to the Gunslinger Adept that we being discussed: I have one in my group. The character is straight out of the book, however, he recently spent karma on specializing with a type of pistol so his skill is Firearms : 4 -> Pistols : 6 -> SPecialized Pistol :8. Does his +4 dice fall under this errata rule?

Darkness

Feb 28 2006, 01:38 AM

Post #43

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QUOTE (ryanstone)

In regard to the Gunslinger Adept that we being discussed: I have one in my group. The character is straight out of the book, however, he recently spent karma on specializing with a type of pistol so his skill is Firearms : 4 -> Pistols : 6 -> SPecialized Pistol :8. Does his +4 dice fall under this errata rule?

Partly.
The Improved Ability dice fall under it, the dice from specialisation to the particular Pistol don't.
IIRC he just broke his skill group by specializing (someone correct my if i'm wrong, i don't have my book with me at the moment).
So his Pistol base Skill is 4, with this he can have an improved ability up to (1.5 * 4 =)6. Which he has, by having a IA:Pistols of +2.
The specialisation doesn't count against the maximum, so it's valid.

Xenith

Feb 28 2006, 01:58 AM

Post #44

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I've been toying with a suprisingly useful house rule in my campaign, along these particular lines. Makes the dice bonus vs rating modification a bit easier to me and my players. I'll just toss it out here. My players rarely have an issue with rule laywering, so there might be a n issue I've missed. Go ahead and give me the pros and cons of it, but be gentle please? ;)
(Lets see if I get flamed or something :D )

QUOTE

-The maximum bonus dice added to a via any skill, attribute, equipment, or circumstance modification (including specializations) may not exceed the total of the base attribute rating plus the base skill rating. This removes various confusing terms and just makes bookkeeping easier, while keeping a limit in place.

-In keeping with the above rule, skill rating modification limits are removed but still “enforced” virtually with the above rule (“All skill, baby!”). Attribute modification rating limits are, however, still enforced.

I'm not sure if I've explained the first house rule well enough, so it might help if you post your interpetations of how it reads.

(Yes, I'm back. How long? Who knows. :grinbig: )

Ankle Biter

Mar 30 2006, 10:23 PM

Post #45

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QUOTE (Frackula)

QUOTE (Glyph @ Feb 24 2006, 11:16 PM)

QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)

Allright that's twenty-five dice, twenty-five, do I hear twenty-six, anybody build twenty-six? Twenty-six dice for a social task from a starting character, I've got twenty-five, from the home-ground-gigolo, going once....going twice......

Elf with 7 Charisma (since only one stat can be maxed out, and it will be Magic for this build) and 6 Magic (but reduced to 5 from bioware). Qualities: Adept, Aptitude/Con, First Impression, Home Ground, and Mentor Spirit (Seductress). Get Con at 7 and specialize in Seduction. For adept powers, get Kinesics: 5 and Improved Ability/Con: 3. For bioware, get Tailored Pheromes: 3.

That's 7 (Charisma) + 7 (Con) + 2 (specialization) +2 (Home Ground) +2 (First Impression) +2 (Mentor Spirit bonus) +5 (Kinesics) + 3 (Improved Ability) +3 (Tailored Pheromes) = 33 dice. :love:

Congratulations sir, you've gone beyond Gigolo, and have invented the Pornomancer Adept.

GM: Three guards at the door. They want to see your SIN.
ADEPT: Are they women?
GM: No.
ADEPT: Are they gay?
GM: No.
ADEPT: I'm going to seduce them anyway. *rolls 28 successes* They're gay for me now! I release my godlike tower of man-meat, and it is pleased.
GM: Stop! Stop!
ADEPT: I say to the guards: "Behold my enormous SIN!"
GM: Every police station in town saw your SIN. Lone Star surrounds you. They're about to arrest you for violating every public nudity law ever made.
ADEPT: No problem. I seduce them too.

Just a thought, if you add edge before you roll, the rule of 6 applies to all them dice.

You could pull a Jasmine on the planet by setting up a camcorder in your (home ground) love pad and broadcasting "the lovercall" to the planetary population....

"Easy Lofwyr, baby, you can take a ticket like everybody else..."

mdynna

Mar 31 2006, 04:43 PM

Post #46

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QUOTE (Darkness)

QUOTE (ryanstone @ Feb 28 2006, 12:58 AM)

In regard to the Gunslinger Adept that we being discussed: I have one in my group. The character is straight out of the book, however, he recently spent karma on specializing with a type of pistol so his skill is Firearms : 4 -> Pistols : 6 -> SPecialized Pistol :8. Does his +4 dice fall under this errata rule?

Partly.
The Improved Ability dice fall under it, the dice from specialisation to the particular Pistol don't.
IIRC he just broke his skill group by specializing (someone correct my if i'm wrong, i don't have my book with me at the moment).
So his Pistol base Skill is 4, with this he can have an improved ability up to (1.5 * 4 =)6. Which he has, by having a IA:Pistols of +2.
The specialisation doesn't count against the maximum, so it's valid.

I believe the Improved Combat Ability power breaks the Group as well. The specialization certainly does.

PBTHHHHT

Mar 31 2006, 08:16 PM

Post #47

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QUOTE (Ankle Biter)

QUOTE (Frackula @ Feb 25 2006, 02:15 AM)

QUOTE (Glyph @ Feb 24 2006, 11:16 PM)

QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)

Allright that's twenty-five dice, twenty-five, do I hear twenty-six, anybody build twenty-six? Twenty-six dice for a social task from a starting character, I've got twenty-five, from the home-ground-gigolo, going once....going twice......

Elf with 7 Charisma (since only one stat can be maxed out, and it will be Magic for this build) and 6 Magic (but reduced to 5 from bioware). Qualities: Adept, Aptitude/Con, First Impression, Home Ground, and Mentor Spirit (Seductress). Get Con at 7 and specialize in Seduction. For adept powers, get Kinesics: 5 and Improved Ability/Con: 3. For bioware, get Tailored Pheromes: 3.

That's 7 (Charisma) + 7 (Con) + 2 (specialization) +2 (Home Ground) +2 (First Impression) +2 (Mentor Spirit bonus) +5 (Kinesics) + 3 (Improved Ability) +3 (Tailored Pheromes) = 33 dice. :love:

Congratulations sir, you've gone beyond Gigolo, and have invented the Pornomancer Adept.

GM: Three guards at the door. They want to see your SIN.
ADEPT: Are they women?
GM: No.
ADEPT: Are they gay?
GM: No.
ADEPT: I'm going to seduce them anyway. *rolls 28 successes* They're gay for me now! I release my godlike tower of man-meat, and it is pleased.
GM: Stop! Stop!
ADEPT: I say to the guards: "Behold my enormous SIN!"
GM: Every police station in town saw your SIN. Lone Star surrounds you. They're about to arrest you for violating every public nudity law ever made.
ADEPT: No problem. I seduce them too.

Just a thought, if you add edge before you roll, the rule of 6 applies to all them dice.

You could pull a Jasmine on the planet by setting up a camcorder in your (home ground) love pad and broadcasting "the lovercall" to the planetary population....

"Easy Lofwyr, baby, you can take a ticket like everybody else..."

I just can't help but think of that Mango character from SNL after reading all this...

"Can you know the mighty ocean? Can you lasso a star from the sky? Can you say to a rainbow... 'Hey, stop being a rainbow for a second'? No! such is Mango!"

NightHaunter View Member Profile	Apr 1 2006, 10:22 AM Post #48
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 360 Joined: 18-March 02 From: Plymouth UK. Member No.: 2,408	Social Adepts are insane but the one I put in last weeks run didn't fare too well. Social skills don't work too well from the wrong end of an alley with people shooting at you. He booked to his car (Eurocar 3000), the shaman went astral after a failed ram with the team bulldog van. And with some minor haemorrhaging cast 2 force 8 power bolts at the rear wheel, blowing it off. Then his spirit used accident on it. One failed test later he's plowed through a building for 20P damage :eek: and turns into a greasy smear on his seat. :scatter: His Troll buddy in the passenger seat survived on 9 damage after some edge use. The Moral: All the social power in the world don't mean squat sometimes!

hobgoblin

Apr 1 2006, 12:01 PM

Post #49

panda!

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QUOTE

the shaman went astral after a failed ram with the team bulldog van. And with some minor haemorrhaging cast 2 force 8 power bolts at the rear wheel, blowing it off.

and this was done from the astral?

b1ffov3rfl0w View Member Profile	Apr 2 2006, 06:02 AM Post #50
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 464 Joined: 3-March 06 From: CalFree Member No.: 8,329	That shouldn't work on a Westwind Eurocar. It would, however, work on a Ford Focus.

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