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> Matrix House Rules, Att + skill for all matrix actions???
The Horror
post Feb 23 2006, 06:09 PM
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Ok, what I did here was modify the way hacking works to attempt to bring it more in line with the magic system.

Essentially, the basic idea is that instead of hackers rolling skill + program, that they would roll attribute + skill with a cap on the number of hits in the roll determined by the rating of the program being used (similar to the way Force of spells caps the number of hits).

I've only just finished writing this up. It hasn't been playtested in any way. Any and all feedback would be muchly appreciated.


The Horror



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Skills

Computer and Data Search skills have been removed. In 2070, everyone is assumed to be able to use Computers and Search for data in the matrix at an acceptable level. Matrix Perceptions has been added as a skill.

Hardware Logic
Software Logic
Hacking Logic
Matrix Perception Intuition
Cybercombat Logic
Electronic Warfare Logic

Compiling Resonance
Decompiling Resonance
Registering Resonance




Programs


To perform an action in the matrix: roll attribute + relevant skill. The rating of the program determines the maximum number of successes you can obtain in the roll. This is stated in the text as (Attribute + Skill using your XXX Program). Using a point of Edge removes the cap on number of hits for that roll.

The System or Pilot rating of a node/drone is described here as its Rating. Rating serves to replace both attributes and skills where required (eg. If the text requires a Logic + Hacking roll, an agent would roll Rating x 2 instead).
Firewall now acts like a program. Where used, it acts as a cap on the number of hits for that action.


Detecting Wireless Nodes
- Detecting Active or passive nodes is automatic
- To detect a particular active or passive node in a crowded area make a Logic + Electronic Warfare test using your Scan program (threshold is 1 per 10 nodes in the area, interval 1 combat turn).
- To detect the presence of hidden nodes make an extended Logic + Electronic Warfare roll using your Scan program (15 + 1 per 10 nodes in the area, interval 1 combat turn).
- To detect a particular hidden node in an area make an extended Logic + Electronic Warfare roll using your Scan program (4 + 1 per 10 nodes in the area, interval 1 combat turn).

Matrix Perception
- You automatically detect all icons in a node, except for those running stealth programs.
- To detect hidden targets (targets running stealth programs), roll Intuition + Matrix Perception using your Analyse program. The target/s rolls Logic + Hacking using Stealth program. Each net success yields one piece of information about the target.
- To Observe in Detail, roll Intuition + Matrix Perception using your Analyse program. Each success yields one piece of information.



Breaking In

Hacking on the fly
- Make an extended Logic + Hacking test using the Exploit program (Firewall, 1 IP). Increase the threshold by +3 for security access and by +6 for admin access.
- The target rolls Rating x 2 using its Firewall rating (threshold is your Stealth) to detect you.

Probing the target
- Make an extended Logic + Hacking test using the Exploit program (Rating x 2, 1 hour). Add +3 to threshold for security access and +6 for admin access.
- The target rolls Rating x 2 (threshold is 10 + your Stealth, interval of 1 hour).

Alerts
- Active Alert: the target node receives a +4 dice bonus on all tests by or against the node itself.




Edit Action
- Roll Logic + Hacking using your Edit program. To alter the output of a device for a longer period you must take control of the device first.

Controlling Devices
- Make an extended Logic + appropriate skill roll using the Command program (threshold is the Device/Node Rating, interval 1 combat turn).

Spoof Command
- To spoof orders you must first detect the target using matrix perception
- Make an opposed Logic + Hacking test using your Spoof program. The target makes a Rating x 2 roll using its Firewall program.

Spoofing your Datatrail
- Make an extended Logic + Hacking test using your Spoof program (threshold = 1 per hour since last Spoof of datatrail, interval 5 minutes).
- If you fail to spoof the datatrail, your only option is to modify the Hardware itself. Make a Logic + Hardware test (2) test. Your SIN may also be compromised however.

Jamming
- A jammer blocks all devices with a Signal rating lower than the rating of the jammer. ECCM adds to the Signal rating of the device for purposes of bypassing Jammers.



Track
- Before tracking a target you must have detected the target using matrix perception.
- Roll Logic + Hacking using Track program (10, 1 Initiative Pass). Add the targets Stealth rating to the threshold of this task.
- The target may attempt to redirect a trace. The target rolls Logic + Hacking using Spoof Program. Each hit adds to the threshold of the tracker.
- Apply a –2 modifier to the threshold of tracking if the target has his/her connection jammed open by Black IC.

Intercept Traffic (both wireless and wired)
- First you must detect the signal you wish to intercept: Roll Logic + Hacking using your Analyse program.
- Then you must tap into the signal: Make an opposed Logic + Electronic Warfare roll using the Sniffer program. The target rolls Logic + Electronic Warfare using their Analyse program. If the target wins this contest then the tap was detected by the system and the user is warned.
- To block or alter parts of the traffic, make a Logic + Hacking test using your Edit program.
- Note that the traffic may be encrypted.

Encryption and Decryption
- To encrypt: make a Logic + Hacking test using your Encryption program. Your successes become the threshold of any decryption attempts.
- To decrypt: make a test of Logic + Hacking using your Decrypt program (threshold is determined by the original encryption roll).



Crash Program/OS
- Make an extended Logic + Hacking test using the Attack program (Rating x 2, 1 Combat Turn). When the threshold is reached the target program crashes.

Disarm Data Bomb
- Make an opposed Logic + Hacking test using the Defuse program.
- Target rolls Rating x 2 using the Data Bomb program.

Reboot
- The system shuts down in (10 – Response) combat turns.
- Technomancers may reboot after (10 – Willpower) combat turns.

Transfer Data
- The GM may call for a Logic + Hacking test using the Edit program.



Combat

Initiative
Matrix Initiative = Intuition x 2.
To roll initiative: Roll Intuition x 2 using your Response rating as a cap on the number of hits.

Matrix icons have Initiative = Rating x 2, and with a cap on the number of hits equal to their Response rating.

Augmented Reality Initiative and IP
- In AR you may only utilize 1 IP per combat turn on matrix actions (additional IP may be used for non-matrix related actions).
- Initiative is determined as normal for physical actions.

Attack
- To attack another icon roll Logic + Cybercombat using your appropriate attack program rating.
- The defending icon rolls Intuition using their Stealth program.
- A defending icon using full defense rolls Intuition + Cybercombat using their Stealth program.

Damage
- Attack programs inflict a base DV equal to their rating.
- Damage is resisted by rolling Willpower (or Rating) dice.
- If the attack is from an Attack program the target uses their Armor program.
- If the attack is from Black IC the target uses Biofeedback Filter program.

Matrix Condition Monitor
The matrix condition monitor consists of 8 boxes + Willpower/2 round down, or 8 boxes + Rating/2 round down for agents and IC.

Repair Icon
- Logic + Hacking using Medic program. Each hit heals one box of matrix damage.

Jacking out after Black IC attacks
- To jack out after being hit by Black IC roll an opposed Willpower test using your Biofeedback Filter program. The IC rolls its Rating using its Response as a cap on the number of hits.

Dumpshock
- Resist dumpshock damage with Willpower using your Biofeedback filter rating.
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tete
post Feb 23 2006, 06:24 PM
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not a bad idea but in real life the "skill" of the program saves the computer user alot of time and effort. I think personaly if you wanted something like this I would use Attribute+Program where your Computer Skill is your limiting factor. Reasoning being You could have the best port scanner in the world and if you don't understand the data comming at you, your success would be limited. On the flip side the best network security admin using poor tools will understand everything he gets but will have to spend way more time ajusting his/her tools to find the problem. This could be shown with an extended test where the computer skill (or x2) is the maximum amount of successes you could achive.

I actualy rather like it that way :D good idea!
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emo samurai
post Feb 23 2006, 06:25 PM
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Maybe have the rating of the program modify thresholds the way they did target number in earlier editions.
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BlackHat
post Feb 23 2006, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE (emo samurai)
Maybe have the rating of the program modify thresholds the way they did target number in earlier editions.

Um. That doesn't work for so many reasons.

Example 1: Hacker with rating 5 commlink hacks another rating 5 commlink.

Rolls logic+hacking (lets say 7 dice) against threshhold of target's firewall (5) - his exploit program of 5 = threshhold 0???

I do like The Horror's houserule though. If my group was more open to house rules, I'd use it.
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The Horror
post Feb 23 2006, 06:34 PM
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QUOTE (tete @ Feb 24 2006, 02:24 AM)
not a bad idea but in real life the "skill" of the program saves the computer user alot of time and effort. I think personaly if you wanted something like this I would use Attribute+Program where your Computer Skill is your limiting factor. Reasoning being You could have the best port scanner in the world and if you don't understand the data comming at you, your success would be limited. On the flip side the best network security admin using poor tools will understand everything he gets but will have to spend way more time ajusting his/her tools to find the problem. This could be shown with an extended test where the computer skill (or x2) is the maximum amount of successes you could achive.

I actualy rather like it that way  :D  good idea!


So you mean: attribute + program, with the number of hits capped by your skill?

That sounds pretty good. I do like it.

Will be a tough choice on which option to go with though. The way I set it up was specifically thinking of programs as spells of a set force. That way I could explain how the entire system works to my players a little bit better.
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tete
post Feb 23 2006, 06:44 PM
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:grinbig: Yeah explaining it may be a bit rough, especialy to non-techies. For me it would be as easy as lauching up an ethereal session and asking my players how much of that junk do you understand. The program is obviously telling us alot about network traffic but how many people can understand it. The program got the successes but it was limited by your skill when it comes to being useful. Now with time you may be able to decipher more but thats increasing your understanding ie skill. The program is still getting the same number of successes.

This puts an intresting twist in cracking. As a company not spending money on skilled people or good programs will be easier to crack. Not because its less secure (though it could be that to) but because it takes them longer to track whats going on. Which is true to life because if you find out you've been cracked two days later its already too late.
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Serbitar
post Feb 23 2006, 07:26 PM
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QUOTE (tete @ Feb 23 2006, 01:24 PM)
not a bad idea but in real life the "skill" of the program saves the computer user alot of time and effort. I think personaly if you wanted something like this I would use Attribute+Program where your Computer Skill is your limiting factor.

Nice idea. I might consider to use it in my house rules. Feels quite streamlined, because I'm limiting sucess by skill anyways.
Maybe even spells should be changed that way (rolling magic+force, limited by skill).

I will have to think that through.

@Horror: Would be nice if you mentioned the rules before your changes, too. Would be easier to compare. Or/and add one or two words why you changed it.

I would be interested in it.
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Aku
post Feb 23 2006, 07:41 PM
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i dont like it because, unlike spells, you buy them at a rating * cost, where as spells are used on a chosen force basic. I can't buy "attack" and say when i want it at ratin 3 vs rating 10
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Serbitar
post Feb 23 2006, 07:48 PM
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But you dont get drain, too. I fleshed it out a little in this thread:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=11921
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Aku
post Feb 23 2006, 08:05 PM
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What i think the problem is, is that someone flubbed up on the coding times. Hackers are supposed to be using their own code, but thats completely un-doable RAW unless the GM lets you pre-code. True hackers "wouldnt use someone else's code, or atleast, let anyone find out" So what i take that to mean, and i'm not big on the "forensics" side of the game, is that systems know how certain code works, so if you buy that Novatech Flamethrower Rating 6 attack program, sysops are gonna know that thats what it is. it might not be much help, but its something over having nothing at all.
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The Horror
post Feb 23 2006, 09:07 PM
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QUOTE (Aku)
i dont like it because, unlike spells, you buy them at a rating * cost, where as spells are used on a chosen force basic. I can't buy "attack" and say when i want it at ratin 3 vs rating 10


Very true. But BP wise, programs are cheaper than spells using RAW. A rating 5 program costs 1 BP (rating x 1000) whereas a spell costs 3 BP. Two extra BP for the added flexibility.

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Aku
post Feb 23 2006, 09:14 PM
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True, but i think a hacker has a longer list of "need" programs, that any one archetype of mage will have.
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Dv84good
post Feb 23 2006, 09:40 PM
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@ tete

I was think if you have a skill of 6 and a program of say 3 could you not say the the program is limiting what the user is able to do with the program. Basicly you know what you want the program to do but it is not able to do it.
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Spoonfunk
post Feb 23 2006, 11:42 PM
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I understand that hackers have an intense list of programs needed and it does put a crimp on things that the hacking skill doesnt have default rules but in a way it kinda makes sense, im mean can you read these forums without a web browser?

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Aku
post Feb 24 2006, 12:04 AM
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That is true Spoon, but i think, in any discussion of whats balanced, it has to be considered. sure, on an individual level, a mage needs 3BP for a spell, vs. 1 BP for a program, but when you look at the list of programs you NEED to have, vs the list of spells for any one archetype, i dont think theres a big variation in cost.

For instance, the archetypes in the book spend an average of 17.25 BP (round to 18) on spells. conversely, i have 21 "must have" programs. which at rating 5, would be 21 BP
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Brahm
post Feb 24 2006, 12:16 AM
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I'm not sure it is a good way to make a comparison Aku, but remember that the magician does then spend a lot of Build Points to raise up their Magic. It is the Magic attribute that defines the Force of the spells. Also I would class all 21 programs at a rating of 5 somewhere short of a need.
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Aku
post Feb 24 2006, 01:16 AM
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true perhaps, , but then, a hacker can't just get away with one skill for hacking, like a magician can with spellcasting.
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Raizer
post Feb 24 2006, 03:25 PM
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I am using the matrix rules as written in my campaign with only this stipulation:
·A Hacker’s abilities during an extended test when using programs instead of a skill is limited to half the dice pool being used (round down) plus their Logic.'
·If you cannot succeed at completing the extended test during that timeframe of rolls, you may never complete that task unless your modifiers change and you start over.
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kigmatzomat
post Feb 24 2006, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (The Horror)
So you mean: attribute + program, with the number of hits capped by your skill?


I'd argue the opposite:

Attribute + Skill limited with successes capped by program rating.

Theory is that a highly intelligent hacker with lots of experience can optimize his software to get the absolute most out of it almost all the time whereas someone who's not that bright or hasn't built up a history won't be able to get the program to live up to its potential.

It's why most people only bother with PaintShop and never buy Photoshop; the user is incapable of taking full advantage of what the software can do. Since System also limits program Rating this also goes back to the CPU. A faster computer can generate more successes per cycle assuming the user knows what they are doing.

Plus, IMO, it is always superior to have an external force (software/hardware) cap the potential of a character.
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Spoonfunk
post Feb 24 2006, 11:14 PM
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QUOTE
That is true Spoon, but i think, in any discussion of whats balanced, it has to be considered. sure, on an individual level, a mage needs 3BP for a spell, vs. 1 BP for a program, but when you look at the list of programs you NEED to have, vs the list of spells for any one archetype, i dont think theres a big variation in cost.

For instance, the archetypes in the book spend an average of 17.25 BP (round to 18) on spells. conversely, i have 21 "must have" programs. which at rating 5, would be 21 BP


I would agree with the must haves for the programs being generally alot more in BP's but then again it seems to me that its just like today. Yeah sure there are amzing Haxor's out there but when you but a computer you arent neccassarily going to use it for that express purpose. The ease in wich the matrix can be accessed in the future is one of the indications for this. Yeah sure you can buil the baddass hacker with all 21 BP's in all the neccarry programs but you can also just take the ones you need to tap a persons commlink if you are a surviellance expert.

I think its great that you have come up with a fully detailed system behind the attribute+skill way of doing things, and if it works for you and your group Hey more the better. Im just posing this side to show that there is more than one way to open a can a chili.
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Azralon
post Feb 24 2006, 11:21 PM
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QUOTE (kigmatzomat)
Attribute + Skill limited with successes capped by program rating.

I like that quite a bit, as well as your reasoning behind it.
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Brahm
post Feb 24 2006, 11:36 PM
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QUOTE (Azralon @ Feb 24 2006, 06:21 PM)
QUOTE (kigmatzomat @ Feb 24 2006, 11:35 AM)
Attribute + Skill limited with successes capped by program rating.

I like that quite a bit, as well as your reasoning behind it.


Really? A sampling of the reasoning:

An excellent reason for not buying Photoshop is because you don't actually have a need for it that they can justify dropping several hundred dollars, and they have Paintshop because it is a lot cheaper. Myself included, I haven't upgraded from PSP 6 because I just don't need the extra stuff. Actually most people have Microsoft Paint because it is free and they didn't actually make the explicit choice to get it.

QUOTE
A faster computer can generate more successes per cycle assuming the user knows what they are doing.


This is total red herring toss out that could go either way.


But all that aside, what it comes down to is the game. It is also generally a bad idea to limit successes. The only places it is done is in FirstAid, which it doesn't actually limit the number of hits, just the number of boxes you can heal. You still count and can use the extra hits. The other place is with Magic, where it is linked into the Drain mechanic and you don't have to buy up where you set the limit, and it doesn't stop at a fairly small number. It also holds Magic in check since it is rolling against things outside of magic. Usually that isn't the case in Hacking.

Balance that against what you are trying to accomplish. Which is?
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Dv84good
post Feb 24 2006, 11:57 PM
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What it does is make it harder for people who are not hacker to be hackers. Because they have to buy logic+skill+programs. You also know what to default to. And if limits are a problem raise program levels above 6. Certain corps can have them.
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Brahm
post Feb 25 2006, 01:37 AM
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QUOTE (Dv84good @ Feb 24 2006, 06:57 PM)
What it does is make it harder for people who are not hacker to be hackers.  Because they have to buy logic+skill+programs. You also know what to default to.  And if limits are a problem raise program levels above 6.  Certain corps can have them.

Most of the cost of being the crack VR decker is in the 5 Skills. That is roughly 3 times the cost of boosting your Logic, depending on when and how you build them up.

Try just upping the Availability of the R programs to Ratingx3, or even Ratingx4. This helps the program dice from dominating the pool to start with, and also helps keep starting Technomancers relavent deckers. It would help to boost the cost at the higher end, but the Avail should get you most of the way there.

You might also think about upping the Response 5 upgrade to 14R, and Response/Signal 6 to 16R, or even 16F or 18F. Treating that equipment like light miltary/heavy commercial, and full on hardened military grade respectively.

This keeps the Skill relavent much longer. Not just at starting but because toting around r33t gear is nolonger a casual no-brainer. There is legal risk to carrying it around.
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Brahm
post Feb 25 2006, 01:56 AM
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If you wanted to go nutso on the cost for programs, say RatingxRatingx200 for 'R' programs, then you might also want to look at trying to make Programing feasible and you'll also want to interpret the Crack & Copy rules on page 228 as Extended Software Test allowing you to make 1 copy only of a given program. Which I like as the interpretation anyway.

As an added feature you could then give something like a +1 or +2 die bonus to a decker that is using a program they wrote themselves. :cyber: This would help make it easier to keep the Program creation rules feasible for PCs to build the programs, but still make sense why they would build them and still run instead of just building programs for a living.
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