Being blind, oh the horror |
Being blind, oh the horror |
Feb 23 2006, 09:01 PM
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#1
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Target Group: Members Posts: 99 Joined: 20-February 06 From: Media PA Member No.: 8,288 |
Am I understanding the rules right that if you are playing a blind character the only rules that apply in combat are blind fire?
-6dice hmm is it possible to use auditory enhancements that might reduce this? one of my players asked me and I told them i would investigate it. |
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Feb 23 2006, 09:07 PM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
It is more than -6 dice. First the PC has to figure out the general location of where to shoot, although that isn't covered as well in the rules. You can try to locate someone by sound only using a Perception check, and there is a spacial recognition enhancement along with general hearing improvements that that helps with that.
The best way around it though is to be awakened with the ability to see on the astral. Then you only take a -2 die penalty. |
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Feb 23 2006, 09:13 PM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 99 Joined: 20-February 06 From: Media PA Member No.: 8,288 |
so your saying the character needs to
1. make a perception test (threshold determined by modifiers and the GM) to find the opposing character 2. role to hit - primary modifer being blindfire Astral perception was the work around in previous editions but the -2 for split still applies so what if someone has an image link and ultrasound? operating on the assumption they are blind this method cant be used correct? |
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Feb 23 2006, 09:19 PM
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#4
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Ultrasound could help, especially if it can overlay across your "visual" field what is around you. (Think Daredevil...) This would depend on if your blindness was caused by something in your eyes or brain damage and a severed connection in the visual processing center of your brain.
I've seen a blind phys-ad who took 4 PPs worth of imp sense powers. She had some problems with standard gear like GPS or reading datapads, but in combat she was able to keep track of most things. |
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Feb 23 2006, 09:21 PM
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#5
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
RE: Astral Perception--you could always play a dual-natured person...it has a nasty set of drawbacks in regards to wards, astral combat and the like, but no -2...
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Feb 23 2006, 09:22 PM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 99 Joined: 20-February 06 From: Media PA Member No.: 8,288 |
one more question about the perception test LOL
would this test be a simple action to observe in detail or just a check? |
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Feb 23 2006, 09:24 PM
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#7
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
How nice a GM are you? With a lot of enhanced senses, I'd give the player a free action to perceive the obvious. If someone is trying to stealth or the character wants more detail, then it would be a simple action.
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Feb 23 2006, 09:26 PM
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#8
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
How about virtual light goggles?
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Feb 23 2006, 09:29 PM
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#9
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Emo--Expand on your idea so we can comment....are you wanting the goggles to darken or brighten the existing light condition? etc..
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Feb 23 2006, 09:32 PM
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#10
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
he means, i think, the goggles from the book Virtual Light. these would not help. they're just AR goggles.
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Feb 23 2006, 09:33 PM
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#11
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Target Group: Members Posts: 99 Joined: 20-February 06 From: Media PA Member No.: 8,288 |
seems like it rests on me to decide. I like the idea of a basic perception check and a simple action in detail role as a simple action.
I guess the type of blindness determines the kind of alternatives available to the character for enhancements. another question relating to blindness is if a character is blind and uses ultrasound would they be able to identify changes in a room. ie placement of an item has been moved. I assume so if they make a logic test or have photographic memory. sorry i know this is probably a lame question but still working it out in my head. |
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Feb 23 2006, 09:37 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 371 Joined: 10-January 06 From: Regina Member No.: 8,145 |
Also, the rules mention (somewhere) that "blind fire" attacks use Intuition instead of Agility as their linked attribute.
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Feb 23 2006, 09:45 PM
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#13
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
I remember the listing stating that they can darken the ambient lighting through filters but not lighten it without addons such as Low Light. However, I didn't know if EMo had come up with another creative way of looking at the world we take for granted. |
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Feb 23 2006, 09:56 PM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
My opinion? I'd be inclined to require them to take the Simple Action. But if they have had an opportunity to take a Simple Action beforehand and sort out where things are then I'd likely just go with a check for them to track one opponent moving around. More than one opponent if they have Select Sound Filter enhancements. If they fail that check though I'd likely require they spend another Simple Action to reaquire a lock. If they just want to shoot at anything making a sound, or they are getting audio info via commlink or voice about location from another team member I might let them get away with just a check but at a penalty. Team members might want to try avoid walking between the blind guy and opponents, because if the blind guy isn't tracking them and they don't let the blind guy know they are there they might catch a little friendly fire. :cyber: What mdynna said too. So they are likely going to want to emphasize Intuition in their character build. :) Post Script How blind are they thinking? See absolutely nothing blind? Or one of the degrees of legally blind where you might detect the difference between light and dark, or even see very fuzzy shapes and colors? |
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Feb 23 2006, 10:01 PM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 99 Joined: 20-February 06 From: Media PA Member No.: 8,288 |
okay how about applying the select sound filter to ultrasound? do things like white noise generators or ultrasound emitter become nullified or modify the role.
am i digging to deep into this? its probably alot simpler than i am making it |
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Feb 23 2006, 10:10 PM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Ultrasound is an active sensor system. It makes a sound at a frequency above the normal human hearing range and waits for the sound to bounce back, and uses the time it took to travel to calculate a distance. It does this several times sweeping across the field of "vision" to build up a spacial model. Basically an air version of SONAR. A Select Sound Filter would serve no purpose for it. White Noise generators might screw with an ultrasound system a bit if they were modified to work in the similar frequency range. A White Noise generator would definately screw with the blind guy's Perception checks. :(
Maybe. :) |
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Feb 23 2006, 10:15 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 99 Joined: 20-February 06 From: Media PA Member No.: 8,288 |
Okay Brahm, I'll leave this alone seems like you provided me with alot of info thanks much!!
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Feb 23 2006, 10:34 PM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Don't get me wrong. I think you asked a lot of good questions, and questions are good things. But you likely have enough to go on now. |
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Feb 23 2006, 10:34 PM
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#19
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
Let me go out on a limb here and suggest that if you are making a blind character who:
1) Is not dual-natured or has access to Astral Perception; 2) Is not a rigger with lots of sensory drones; 3) Is not a stay-at-home decker; you are probably making a very, very bad decision. In any game I've ever ran, you would probably die very, very fast. |
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Feb 23 2006, 10:45 PM
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#20
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
In SR being blind means that the parts of your brain that interperate visual data simply arn't functional for some reason. Anything less is easily repaired with basic medical cloning or 'ware.
You can't 'see' anything either real or simsense. If you're a decker you have to find replacements for all those nice visual metaphors that everyone else uses. Ultrasound vision doesn't work because it is a form of vision. A computer transforms the ultrasound data into visual data. Astral perception works because it isn't a form of vision. You don't even need a brain to use astral perception. The best set up for a blind shadowrunner that doesn't rely on the cheese that is Astral Perception is several cameras with all the bells and whistles and an AR overlay that provides audio replacements for visual data. When your range finder shows that you are about to walk into something it sounds a virtual tone. When you point your helmet camera at a street sign your AR system reads it for you. When you point your gun at someone's face your smartlink tells you who you are geeking. Yeah, with AR a blind character should be able to shoot better than a blind character can hack. |
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Feb 23 2006, 10:53 PM
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#21
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
That bit of wierdness was true of the Blind Flaw in SR3, in a doomed attempt to thwart the the munchkin hordes at the gate. But SR4 purged most of the worst of the munchkin holdouts from Flaws. So this is more a roleplaying thing I think, which doesn't have to have those sort of limitations. Although without it I guess you could question why the character doesn't just get cybereyes or even just a camera bolted to the front of their hat and wire that into their brains. :) Or maybe they are porting a SR3 character or the player is trying make up their own Negative Quality? Lividicus? |
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Feb 23 2006, 11:25 PM
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#22
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Target Group: Members Posts: 99 Joined: 20-February 06 From: Media PA Member No.: 8,288 |
Well at the point where I tried giving up this string wasnt going to give any Quality points for it. However you guys opened up a whole can of worms. This particular hypothetical question was for mere character developement. I just wanted a mechanical reason for using those sets of rules which Brahm had done very well in his explanations earlier. To answer directly I guess its a matter of roleplay value. With some game mechanics..... not importing from sr3 and not making up a negative quality....although i guess for some of the disadvantages I should be fare. Personally I think my Player is smoking something because i dont get what he trying to accomplish besides confusing me LOL |
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Feb 23 2006, 11:29 PM
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#23
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
I find players will do that. Smoke something and confuse you. :) |
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Feb 23 2006, 11:39 PM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 99 Joined: 20-February 06 From: Media PA Member No.: 8,288 |
True my IQ is on the low end of the scale so all i have to do is try to read something and looky mission accomplished Confusion! However thanks Brahm and everyone else all your suggestions and insights were great.
I wonder if one of those spells from sr3 where you could see through others eyes is going to be transfered over to 4th hmmmm wish i had my book with me now LOL please dont answer that i am just trying to cause problems now:P |
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Feb 24 2006, 03:22 AM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
I can just see all the hermeitic mage adept blind gunfighter builds sprouting out of this. |
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