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> Updates to the threats books, any write ups?
Lividicus
post Feb 23 2006, 09:16 PM
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Has anyone seen any updates to whats going on in the threats books besides deuce?
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BishopMcQ
post Feb 23 2006, 09:22 PM
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I have not seen anything mentioned in the upcoming product line about Threats 3. That doesn't mean that it's not coming out, but I'd say that it is probably going to take a back seat to the prime projects like Unwired, Augmentation and Street Magic.

IMO--Look towards '07 maybe '08 for a Threats book.
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Lividicus
post Feb 23 2006, 09:29 PM
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What about what has happened to the groups listed in the previous books? Just looking for info on what has happened to the groups themselves. Kind of like a history of whats happened to them.
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mdynna
post Feb 23 2006, 09:31 PM
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"deuce"? Do you mean Deus (pronounced DAY-us, by the way), or am I missing something?
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Lividicus
post Feb 23 2006, 09:34 PM
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yeah, I mean we all know what happened to Deus but what about the other threats. What has happened to them?
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stevebugge
post Feb 23 2006, 09:44 PM
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By the end of System Failure Winternight had been more or less dismantled, the AI's had been wiped out by Jormungand, Ibn Eisa was exposed as (probably) a master Shedim. There was a Coup in Tir Tairgire. So that does leave a number of items from previous threats books still up and running. The Viglia Evangelica has yet to play a prominent role in a FanPro publication. The Humanis Policlub/Human Nation/Alamos 20K axis still seems to be alive and well. Toxic Spirits and radical evironmental groups probably are still going strong.

Remember a lot of the threats were based on advanced magic, biotech, or matrix rules in SR3, so it would make sense that development of future threats will probably be held up until those rule supplements are in place and a few setting books are in place as well. My bet is we see a threats book sometime in '08
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Lividicus
post Feb 23 2006, 09:48 PM
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Thanks that helps alot actually was there an update to that group that was trying to bring back the former USA?
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Aku
post Feb 23 2006, 10:08 PM
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SR4 stated that they launched several coup attempts that failed.
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mdynna
post Feb 23 2006, 10:19 PM
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The New Revolution
They kidnapped President Haeffner during the wake of the Crash 2.0. They were exposed and arrested/killed by government forces. President Haeffner, however, was killed in an attempted rescue. General Colloton, who was in charge of the military blockade of the Renraku Arcology, was elected President.
(Ref: System Failure)

Art Dankwalther
Art Dankwalther was killed by a Corporate Court ordered oribtal weapon attack ("Thor Shot"). Most of his assets had already been absorbed by Novatech/Villiers using the cash from the IPO, just before the Matrix crashed of course.
(Ref: System Failure)

General Saito
Saito was overthrown by Ares forces working with elements of the Mothers of Metahumans and the Metahuman People's Army (possbily with Shadowrunner help?). Not much is known about what happened.
(Ref: Shadowrun 4th Edition)

Pax and the Dissonant Otaku
After instrumenting the release of the Crash Virus Pax and her otaku could not be found. It is not known whether they are still alive or not (I'm guessing this will developed later)
(Ref: System Failure)
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Spoonfunk
post Feb 23 2006, 11:48 PM
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Personnaly I am loving the creative leeway with the unupdated storyline. Gives me a chance to run a couple experimental campaign idea's without those idea's being thrown in the face of the omnipresent cannon.

Already I have finished running a campaign in wich the serephim have turned up again as a underground intelligence network. This tiem aroudn im writing up idea's for ibn eisa and the Islamic Unity Movement.
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SL James
post Feb 24 2006, 12:30 AM
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QUOTE (mdynna @ Feb 23 2006, 04:19 PM)
General Saito
Saito was overthrown by Ares forces working with elements of the Mothers of Metahumans and the Metahuman People's Army (possbily with Shadowrunner help?).  Not much is known about what happened.
(Ref: Shadowrun 4th Edition)

I'm gonna have to call bullshit on this one.

All SR4 says is that California is no longer run by Saito as of 2069. In 2065, he is pretty comfortable and backed by MCT North America, which diverted all of its Tsimshian resources into the Bay Area.

Besides, MOM? Plese.
QUOTE (Aku)
SR4 stated that they launched several coup attempts that failed.

"Failed." Sure.

Threats

Alamos 20K: Still around.

Darke: Individually, gone. Someone (or multiple parties) are still around. See Aztechnology, and the Apep Consortium.

Winternight: Leadership's destroyed, but you can't kill an organization like it in one fell swoop.

Vampires: Still exist.

Halberstam: Still around experimenting with technomancers. Read the Matrix 2.0 chapter of System Failure.

KSAF: Still around, but not as productive as they were.

IEs: Check.

Lofwyr: Of course.

Insect Spirits: Check.

Blood Mage Gestalt: See Darke.

Black Lodge: Check (almost assuredly related to the Vigilia).

Human Nation: Check.

Tutor: Check.

Strain III: Oh, yeah.

Threats 2

Saito: *Shrug* Doing fairly well in 2065. Disappears by 2069.

Dissonance: Won.

Imps: Check.

Aleph Society: Check.

Master Shedim: Check.

NR: Hell yes, they're still around.

Insect-Paranimal Merges: Why not?

Drakes: Regrettably.

False Face: Yep.

Network: Won, lost, technically uncertain.

Templars: No comment.

Art: Dead. His little kingdom: Dead (mostly, you never know).

And in case anyone's wondering, my old posts on Colloton and the New Revolution haven't gone anywhere as far as I can tell.
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Guest_MK Ultra_*
post Feb 24 2006, 12:58 AM
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What do you mean by the Black Lodge the Vigilia?
The way I scanned it in SoE, the BL have infiltrated the french catholic church, but the topdogs in rome donīt like them very much (neither of the fractions). The Vigilia in turn are much in the line of the topdogs.

Am I missing something?

EDIT: Did someone inherit Arties War Machine/Money or did the CC rip everything apart and used the money for compensation, what do you think?
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Synner
post Feb 24 2006, 01:20 AM
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QUOTE (MK Ultra @ Feb 24 2006, 12:58 AM)
What do you mean by the Black Lodge the Vigilia?
The way I scanned it in SoE, the BL have infiltrated the french catholic church, but the topdogs in rome donīt like them very much (neither of the fractions). The Vigilia in turn are much in the line of the topdogs.

Am I missing something?

Possibly. The Vigilia material in Loose Alliances was meant to have several possible readings depending on where a GM wanted to take it. One clue as to what SL James is talking about: "Melk" (sorry AH, it was just too good a reference to pass up).
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Ancient History
post Feb 24 2006, 02:45 AM
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You're going to Hell for that one, Syn.
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fistandantilus4....
post Feb 24 2006, 08:49 AM
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well, if you think about it, it makes sense . The BL is interested in gaining ancient magic. The vault probably has that in spades. Also, the supposed ties of the Masons/Illuminates that the Black Lodge would be an off shoot of, was historically anti-religion, pro world goverment. So undermining the church from within makes sense. Especially since they have a history of worming their way in to other organizations, hence the Masons/Illuminates. It does say that the Lodge is trying to infiltrate the Illumates of the New Dawn as well , which supports that.

I'd never really thought about the Lodge being tied to the Vigilica before, but it seems to work to my conspiracy happy mind. After all, they do have that whole "agree or we mind wipe you and make you forget this conversation ever happened." And if that is the case, I love how they undermine 'loyal' priests to secretly help the enemy. Kind of like the first season of Alias.

AH:? What's up?

Refernces I can find on Melk:
wikipedia linkage
The Abey and Congregation of Melk
"became a place of pilgrimage to the shrine of St. Coloman, and was famed for its great relic of the Holy Cross." maybe cool old relic of interest to the Lodge?
"All these houses followed the same observance and styled themselves the Congregation of Melk. They in no way depended, however, on Melk, nor had they any general superior, soliciting visitors when needful from the pope."

or

Melk concentration camp:
Location: Aprox. 100 km to the east of Linz (Austria).
Established: January 11, 1944.
Liberated: May 5, 1945.
Estimated number of victims: aprox. 10,000 (not counting the unknown number which perished in the tunnels).

or

Heinrich Von Melk
"German satirist of the twelfth century; of knightly birth and probably a lay brother in the convent of Melk, in Styria. His chief work is a poem "Von des todes gehugede" (the remembrance of death), a discourse on the theme memento mori. It is a bitter invective against the vices and sins of all classes, especially of knighthood. After an introduction wherein the poet explains how the depravity of his age has incited him to his task, he turns to his real subject, the contemplation of death, the horrors of which are portrayed in glaring contrast with the vanity of earthly life."

or
Mr. Plum, in the library, with the Vigilica
Lemme know how I'm doing so I can stop searching. :)

This post has been edited by fistandantilus3.0: Feb 24 2006, 09:24 AM
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Synner
post Feb 24 2006, 09:19 AM
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You're close on at least a couple of the above, but the reference is let's say more "literary"... cross reference what you've got with the Loose Alliances material and see what you get :).

I pretty much spelled it out in the book, though I thought more people would have picked up on the tip of the hat. One of these days I'm going to have to ask Rob if I can post the GI text that was dropped.
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fistandantilus4....
post Feb 24 2006, 09:25 AM
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well I've tossed on a few more links that Icould find for the library, but my Loosa Alliances is at home. Damn it. I hate having to wait for 4+ hours to track down my answers.

There was a book about it too I noticed :The Name of the Rose, which seems to fit the theme. Damn you and your making me spend money. :S
At least the book looks interesting.

Seriously, Rob should let you guys do follow ups on the SR page or something. I'd say Holostreets, but right now, well that's just a frustrating answer, as all of my patience is spent taking care of my three children, so I have unfortuantely little left waiting for release dates. :(

For those that don't want to read
"The Name of the Rose was also made into a film in 1986, directed by Jean-Jacques Annaud and starring Sean Connery as William of Baskerville and Christian Slater as Adso."

This post has been edited by fistandantilus3.0: Feb 24 2006, 09:30 AM
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MaxHunter
post Feb 24 2006, 02:33 PM
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The Name of the Rose, by italian writer and semiologist Umberto Eco IS a really good book. The movie is quite fine too, but it does not even come close to the depth of the ideas at TNotR. I strongly recommend it. Understanding Latin is a plus, though.

Back on track, the black lodge-Vigilia Evangelica crossover just stinks of Dan Brown books, more specifically: "Angels and Demons". Personally, I believe those are quite thrashy. The plot is childish in the extreme and the main character is a Mary Sue all the way. One SR veiled reference to that angle in the Shadows of Asia (p. 138 -<Novosibirsk).

For more serious conspiracionists (?) I recommend Foucault's Pendulum, by the Eco.

Cheers,

Max
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Synner
post Feb 24 2006, 02:56 PM
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Eco is indeed one of my favorite writers and The Name of the Rose is one of my all-time favorite novels. I recommend Foucault's Pendulum even more, it is much denser reading but even more satisfying.

If you're really into doing a little research with "hidden" references you should look up some of the artifacts and documents name-dropped in the text. There's more than a couple of surprises I slipped in there too. The Vigilia was a lot of fun to work on.

The Black Lodge - Vigilia connection is only one possible reading of the material and was never intended to be a nod to anything but established canon regarding the Lodge and the power behind it.
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mdynna
post Feb 24 2006, 03:44 PM
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QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (mdynna @ Feb 23 2006, 04:19 PM)
General Saito
Saito was overthrown by Ares forces working with elements of the Mothers of Metahumans and the Metahuman People's Army (possbily with Shadowrunner help?).  Not much is known about what happened.
(Ref: Shadowrun 4th Edition)

I'm gonna have to call bullshit on this one.

All SR4 says is that California is no longer run by Saito as of 2069. In 2065, he is pretty comfortable and backed by MCT North America, which diverted all of its Tsimshian resources into the Bay Area.

Besides, MOM? Plese.


QUOTE (SR4 BBB pg. 32)
Ares Macrotechnology, feeling
Silicon Valley was threatened, moved in troops to defend
it and ended up being instrumental (along with Mothers of
Metahumans and various pirates and shadowrunners) in eventually
liberating the area in the late 2060s.


I don't BS my posts. :D
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Demonseed Elite
post Feb 24 2006, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
Seriously, Rob should let you guys do follow ups on the SR page or something. I'd say Holostreets, but right now, well that's just a frustrating answer, as all of my patience is spent taking care of my three children, so I have unfortuantely little left waiting for release dates. :(

Yeah, that would be pretty neat. I've wanted to do some Tibet follow-ups (another place where there are secret references I'm not sure anyone has noticed yet ;) ). I doubt there will be much opportunity for me to go back to Tibet in the canon material, but I've been waiting for Holostreets for the possibility of doing it there.
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SL James
post Feb 24 2006, 09:51 PM
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*Groans*

I must have glazed over that part for <insert your own mean-spirited reason>. OTOH, Ritter must be a better tactician than Kenny. Spud must be so proud.
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Guest_MK Ultra_*
post Feb 24 2006, 11:26 PM
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QUOTE (Synner)
QUOTE (MK Ultra @ Feb 24 2006, 12:58 AM)
What do you mean by the Black Lodge the Vigilia?
The way I scanned it in SoE, the BL have infiltrated the french catholic church, but the topdogs in rome donīt like them very much (neither of the fractions). The Vigilia in turn are much in the line of the topdogs.

Am I missing something?

Possibly. The Vigilia material in Loose Alliances was meant to have several possible readings depending on where a GM wanted to take it. One clue as to what SL James is talking about: "Melk" (sorry AH, it was just too good a reference to pass up).

Ah, Iīve forgotten about that one (just reread), so I thought SL James suggested the Lodge and the Vigilia being in bed with each other, as fistandantilus3.0 already posted. But Iīd rather think this just alludes to the roots of the Black Lodge, as has allready been established in Threats, in the original Knights Templar (and obvious since LA in the Vigilia by extension). It puts some more light on the cause of the shism betweem the KT/BL and the RCC and allso on the sorce of (at least much of) the ancient ockult texts, the Penultimate Master of the BL needs to do his ubermagic.

But Ancient is probably right, Syn, your likely going to hell for this one, or at least going to be executed for treason. Any lawsuits yet? You should drobably change your Nick to "Freelancer" and turn to the shadows, before they getcha! :P
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fistandantilus4....
post Feb 25 2006, 05:47 AM
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ok, feel like a dork, because I went home and picked up my copy of Loose Alliances, and there it all was spelled out right in front of me. At the end of the 12th century (1297 according to my google-fu) a fire destroyed the Abbey. In LA, the text reveals that the fire also included a theft of many relics and texts (I'll see if I can place some of those names Syn) by brothers of the cloth. Basically the roots of the BL if I read it right.

Which is kind of interesting, that the Black Lodge was founded more or less back in the 13th century. ALso that , IIRC , the Illuminati, which was culled from the upper echelons of the Mason's, and I'd always assumed, had ties to the Lodge, was formed in the 16th century. So that really changes my views on their goals. They made have had the similar lodge structure, but they were from before. Perhaps they simply adopted themselves to the more formal style later.

But it's intersting that so much would have been passed down by rogue priests , existing out side of, or hidden within the church hierarchy, for 800 years, hiding away most likely arcane texts and relics. I have to wonder though if the hints in LA are suggesting horrors, or simply 'evil' spirits.

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SL James
post Feb 25 2006, 09:53 AM
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I'd suggest a trip into the LA forum archive. It should clear that question right up.
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