Sperethiel, How common is it for elves? Options

[Thyme Lost]

In the old 2nd edition book, Tir Tairngire, it says that Sperethiel is largely limited to Comital Rank and above, but in the 4th edition book, the (Elven) combat mage has 4 ranks in it and the (Elven) smuggler has 3 ranks in it.

So, my question is, in 2070, how common is it for Elves of any rank to know Sperethiel?


Thyme


PS. I only know what it says in 2nd ed Tir Tairngire and 4th ed main book, Sperethiel might have been more common in 3rd ed, but I don't know.

[Dissonance]

Frankly, I think that and Or'Zet should be about as common as Esperanto.

[Shrike30]

I can't tell if you're joking or not...

[Endgame50]

A lot of elves in elven countries would know it. Elves born to elves in elven countries would know it. Elves who are full of elven pride would know it. Outside of those clusters, I tend to look at it as about as common as Japanese in the current U.S. Some people interested in the culture would learn it, but as most people don't have a reason to (and because it's not taught in many places before college) it's not really widely known.

Just an opinion though.

[Eryk the Red]

That's how I see it. Sperethiel seems to be the kind of thing an elf would learn because they have some specific interest in it. There are certain practical reasons a runner might learn it, I figure. A runner in the Pacific northwest might end up having to travel through Tir Tairngire at times, and he's more likely to blend in or at least piss people off less by speaking their language. Sort of like how you're better off knowing French going to Quebec, except Quebeckers are less likely to Manabolt you into fine, astral dust.

[Ancient History]

My mage took it so he could pronounce the spells in the ancient tome.

[Thyme Lost]

I think I now understand my confusion with Sperethiel.
My gaming group really only ever played 2nd edition.
In second edition only a small portion of high ranking Elves knew Sperethiel.
In third edition Sperethiel became a more common language for people to know.

I was use to my group, which required a very good in character reason to know the language. My group never really read the 3rd edition books all that closely, so they never saw that Sperethiel had become more common.

In Tir Tairngire a second edition book, only Elves above Comital Rank really knew Sperethiel.

In Shadows Across North America, 55% of Tir Tairngire uses Sperethiel.

The will be people in my group that won't like Sperethiel being more common, but I'm the GM, so :P .


Thyme

[NeonWraith]

I always thought it was one of those things that elves born into the two Tirs would know, as would any elf born into money and given a private education. Other than that, I always assumed it was the province of mages and historians.

[Eryk the Red]

That makes sense theoretically, but think how fast data can be communicated even now. In SR, anyone who cares and who has access to the Matrix could learn Sperethiel, because it's not data kept under lock and key by governments or megacorps. Once enough people know something, someone's bound to upload the data onto some server, then it just multiplies.

[hobgoblin]

[Endgame50]

[fool]

but by the time they came out with shut down, it was already common enough that orcs were showing off their knowledge of it. Also, in sota2064, they were having goblin rockers making a big splash using orzet, which would spread the language even faster.

[Dranem]

The elven language can also be seen as a high society thing.. it's 'posh' to know certain oblique cultural terminology... like how some rich people will use French even though they rarely have any idea if they'r using it in the proper context.. it sounds 'posh' thus raising their status.

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

[Dissonance]

Hm. I'm willing to concede that point. I still don't think that they should be entirely popular outside of the Tirs or a college setting, given that it's not really an active native language.

I could see a stronger case for Sperethiel, given that it sounds like Tir is basically forcing people to speak it, a la SR Quebec with French.

I have a harder time swallowing the fact that anybody has Orzet beyond, like, a one or two. I can understand the occasional word or phrase, but it seems a little, I'onno. Hokey.

[DigitalSoul]

[Thyme Lost]

The way I look at it, no one will be taken Sperethiel as their native langauge yet. It hasn't been around long enough, but there really isn't a reason why Elves can't have ranks in Sperethiel. (Unless it goes against their back story.)

Thyme

[Gothic Rose]

[Thyme Lost]

[Ophis]

Tir Nan og speaks gaelic sperethiel slightly different language

also the tirs have been around 35 years now. People raised in pretensious elf supremist households (yep high rank) would probably be getting on bilingual english/sperethiel.

also sperethiel would be a common way of overcoming language barriers between elves of different original nationalities.

[Waltermandias]

I can imagine alot of people learning that first point because it's cool. It's like alot of my friends and languages, we learn the first bit because we really dig the language, culture, and/or want to be all pretentious, but then we find that learning a new language can be pretty hard so we don't get beyond that.

I can see alot of young elves and elf-posers getting that first point and then deciding that they know enough to pepper their speech with cool phrases and learning more isn't really practical.

Of course the well-to-do ones just get linguasofts...

[NeonWraith]

[hobgoblin]

kinda like the french and germans?

[mintcar]

Israel has been a state since 1948. Before then hebrew was an ancient language that nobody used as a spoken language for everyday situations (eccept maybe the odd expert and rabbi, and even then they would have troubles unless they lived just like in biblical times). They chose hebrew over german and giddish as their national language—so they had to make it a working, modern language. Now, 80% of Israel's jewish population say they speak hebrew in daily life.

Tir nations were in a similar situation as Israel. The elves were united by heritage but not by nationality. When creating a national identity, you really need a national language that every citizen can be proud of. Israel is proof that the need can be strong enough to establish that language in roughly 50 years time.

I don't find Sperithiel's spread in Shadowrun hard to accept at all.

[hobgoblin]

hmm, that makes me wonder what kind of direction the or'zet language will bring the orcs...