 Ganger Campaign, Chargen, etc. |
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 Mar 9 2006, 05:59 AM
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#76
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Prime Runner  Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665  |
Those numbers are not accurate. Those characters have a number of Contacts, Resources, and Skills that are not represented on their character sheet because they are not important to their capacity as a thug. Actually playing a Humanis thug would be very much more expensive - they have all the other humanis members as Contacts and a lifestyle and home theatre equipment and various skills. I'm sure a lot of Humanis thugs are Auto Mechanics, for example, and that sets them back 4-12 more points right there. Bottom line: Player characters are much more expensive than NPC thugs are. If you are built on the same number of BPs as an NPC thug, he's much much better than you because several facets of the NPC that aren't expected to come up are hand-waived - and therefore the NPC gets them for free. -Frank |
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Mar 9 2006, 03:45 PM
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#77
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
So it's 150 instead of 106. That's still not a huge difference. Resources are only 1-3 points, edge probably comes in for another 10 points, contacts... maybe 6-10 points (friends and aquaintances don't generally count as those are free... a contact has to have some pull in my opinion). Probably an "organization membership" quality for 5 points. Skills, one profession at about 12 bp. The difference is, at most, 50%. So take the Halloweener and add 50% and you're still not at 300, but rather close to 250. |
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Mar 9 2006, 05:46 PM
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#78
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Well, no. Let's say that one of the Halloweeners is a junkyard guy. He's got the same garbage attributes as the rest of them, and thus for combat purposes is the standard Profession Rating 1 Grunt.
So he's got attributes that cost only 130 BPs (the Willpower of 2 is a typo because he can take 10 boxes before dropping). Then he's got the standard grunt skills, 34 BPs. And his basic equipment (1BP). --- But he's also got: Automotive Mechanic 3 (12 BP) Hardware 1 (4 BP) Locksmith 1 (4 BP) Pilot Groundcraft 1 (4 BP) Resources (6 BP): Squatter Lifestyle (2 months) Ford Americar Automotive Mechanic Shop Rating 3 Fake SIN w/ Driver's License MetaLink Commlink w/ Vector Xim OS Lockpick set (slimjim) Chisel Wire Clippers Hardware Kit Certified Credstick Change of Clothes Contacts (26 BP): Gang Boss (4/4) Gang Member (2/4) Other Gang Member (2/4) Car Buff (1/1) Inventory Manager at Kragen's (3/2) --- So that's 221 BPs. For a bare minimum Gang Member with no real unique abilities or potential. Adding 29 BP to this character wouldn't even buy the Magician quality under the doubled-cost system. -Frank |
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| Guest_MK Ultra_* |
Mar 9 2006, 06:00 PM
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#79
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Guests |
Iīd not call that "bare minimum", but thats probably depending on the POV. Anyway, non of the Archetypes in SR4 has as powerfull contacts as this guy, so I dont think, thats supposed to be standard!
BTW: I think 300 bp are ok, while I could do with 250, I think 300 isnīt too powerfull with the special rules. |
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Mar 9 2006, 06:19 PM
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#80
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Oh, I also forgot: the basic Halloweeners use Group Edge, so they don't have to buy an Edge stat. A player character does have to buy an Edge stat, so they are down another 10-40 BP....
And I don't find the idea of a Halloweener being a "buddy" with a "gang boss" and 2 "gang members" to be that weird. That's right off the contacts table. Low-, and mid-level contacts are in general too expensive. I've seen a number of proposed solutions, but the most elegant I think was to make the cost in "Contact Points" for each contact be Connections x Loyalty, and to give people 3 Contact Points for a BP. -Frank |
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| Guest_MK Ultra_* |
Mar 9 2006, 06:27 PM
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#81
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Guests |
Your right, the building system is quiet flawed, conserning contacts, but the same rules apply to all the runner-archetypes.
TG also posted, we wonīt have to spend points on our own gangs members/boss, so, the essential contacts are for free! |
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Mar 9 2006, 06:32 PM
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#82
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Maybe, maybe not. There is a simplification system in place for grunts on page 272 that gives a number of "general" boxes equal to the higher of the two tracks. I was thinking about this this morning. If you want to really look at the character's, then the best thing to do would be to take the cost of physical and mental attributes and then double that. That's how many points most real characters would be built on if they were full characters. I'm not sure if that generalization would follow through for magically active characters or not, but let's assume it would for the purposes of this comparison. Humanis: 180 bp, L: 280 bp Halloweener: 240 bp, L: 320 bp Corpsec: 320 bp, L: 360 bp (but magical) LS Squad: 380 bp, L: 440 bp ... Tir Ghost L: 660 bp I don't think this holds for the higher BP totals (even the LS guys are questionable) but for the low BP guys, it seems to work. In any case, I think 250 bp for a ganger under the standard system is realistic. Since I'm doubling the cost of resources and magic, I think 300 will result in characters at a point where they'll be challeneged on the streets. |
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Mar 9 2006, 06:40 PM
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#83
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
I don't think player characters should be exactly on the same level as normal thugs. Using 300 BP with 200 BP in attributes, the characters in my campain has better attributes, but the same values in relevant skills (though obviously, they have more different ones) as the ganger grunts in the book has. The point is not to create cookie-cutter gangers, I would imaginebut to create characters that are on the street level and that are sufficiently challanged by opposition on the level of the ganger grunts in the book.
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Mar 9 2006, 06:43 PM
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#84
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Lost in Time Member No.: 8,312 |
So stick with a 300 BP character, but double magic and EQ? That wouldn't be too bad. Having 250 BP with double magic and EQ would suck. Thyme... |
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 Mar 9 2006, 07:40 PM
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#85
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,746 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
AFAIK, that's the plan. Bye Thanee |
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Mar 9 2006, 07:45 PM
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#86
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Yep. You can actually make some fairly powerful characters under those rules.
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Mar 9 2006, 07:46 PM
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#87
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Lost in Time Member No.: 8,312 |
Sounds good with me... I'll either do a troll or maybe an Orc Smith. 4 ranks in Armorer(Weapom Mods) 3 ranks in Automotive Mechanic... With being a Mundane. I one special piece of Eq is a Shop for Armorer... Thyme... |
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