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> Should I buy Shadows of North America?
emo samurai
post Mar 6 2006, 08:21 AM
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Or will it be outdated with the surely imminent release of Runner Havens?
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Ryu
post Mar 6 2006, 08:35 AM
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"Runner Havens" has a different focus and won┤t figure into that decision except for budget restraints.
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emo samurai
post Mar 6 2006, 08:41 AM
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Is it good?
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SL James
post Mar 6 2006, 08:44 AM
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It's good enough.
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emo samurai
post Mar 6 2006, 08:50 AM
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Is it as good as Dragons of the Sixth World?
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Synner
post Mar 6 2006, 08:58 AM
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Runner Havens (and SR4 location books for the foreseeable future) will focus on specific sprawls which fit the central theme of the book. For instance Runner Havens will feature Seattle (UCAS) and Hong Kong (indy) in detail with brief coverage of Cape Town (Azania), Istanbul/Constantinople (indy), Caracas (indy) and Hamburg (AGS) to round it out and offer variety.

The Shadows of series on the other hand, paints a broad picture of most countries on each continent, their histories, relations, politics and ongoing plots and subplots they are involved in. They often include brief profiles of major sprawls but nothing in depth.

One thing we've endevoured to do is keep the Shadows of series as relevant as possible. Obviously in the wake of the Crash 2.0 there are significant shakeups across the globe but the vast majority of the setting information is still pretty relevant. That being said Shadows of North America was the first to come out and is probably the one that is most dated in terms of the overall geopolitical situation since North Am was one of the areas worse hit by System Failure.
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emo samurai
post Mar 6 2006, 09:14 AM
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How much does it say about the NAN?
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SL James
post Mar 6 2006, 09:37 AM
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Quite a bit considering that seven of the twelve nations (plus Denver) are NAN states.
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Bullet Raven
post Mar 6 2006, 11:57 AM
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Get Shadows of Europe because Europe > North America ;)
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eidolon
post Mar 7 2006, 02:27 AM
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Quick few questions for those of you that played SR3 before SR4 came out since you guys are on the subject of fluff books:

Are the new fluff bits (Runner Havens for example) compatible enough regardless of rules system to make them a decent addition to a strictly SR3 game?

Are they over-laden with references and stories that can only be considered pertinent if you've moved on to 2070 and/or the SR4 rules?

Is there enough of a fluff-content ratio to make them worth buying for SR3?

Some of the stuff coming up/out seems pretty interesting, but I don't want to waste my money if they're too SR4-dependant.

I await opinions. Thanks in advance.

My opinion on SoNA: get it. It's awesome. After the BBB, the "Shadows Of" series are some of the best books for SR, after Mr. J's LBB.
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Brahm
post Mar 7 2006, 04:48 AM
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QUOTE (eidolon @ Mar 6 2006, 09:27 PM)
Are the new fluff bits (Runner Havens for example) compatible enough regardless of rules system to make them a decent addition to a strictly SR3 game?

Depends if they follow the past setting books. For example Shadows of Asia is a 230 page book. Out of that the only SR3 rules specific information are three modifiers associated with the Maya Cloud surrounding Tibet (modifiers for Flux, Signature, and visibility TN), and 2 tables over 5 pages at the back of the book for ratings on regional border sensors and RTGs (Matrix nodes) at the very back, and a few paragraphs of those very superficial difference SR3 magic traditions.

There are some places where Street Magic rules are needed, almost all with Background count and not all the spells associated with the Maya cloud are in the SR4 BBB. But as long as a Background Count of 3 in SR3 means roughly the same thing as a BC 3 in SR4 these won't need changes.

So more than 220 of 230 pages have no difference at all between SR3 and SR4.
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Demonseed Elite
post Mar 7 2006, 04:51 AM
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QUOTE (eidolon)
Are the new fluff bits (Runner Havens for example) compatible enough regardless of rules system to make them a decent addition to a strictly SR3 game?

Are they over-laden with references and stories that can only be considered pertinent if you've moved on to 2070 and/or the SR4 rules?

Yes.

No.

8)
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mfb
post Mar 7 2006, 04:52 AM
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QUOTE (Bullet Raven)
Get Shadows of Europe because Europe > North America ;)

zomg america-bashign
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Bullet Raven
post Mar 7 2006, 10:01 AM
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QUOTE (mfb)
QUOTE (Bullet Raven @ Mar 6 2006, 06:57 AM)
Get Shadows of Europe because Europe > North America ;)

zomg america-bashign

I don't mean it :)

My campaign is set in Europe but I so should have run a Bug City game!
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Shrike30
post Mar 7 2006, 08:05 PM
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Hey, some parts of Europe are so screwed up in SR, we might not even notice another Bug City happening over there...
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neko128
post Mar 7 2006, 08:36 PM
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QUOTE (Shrike30)
Hey, some parts of Europe are so screwed up in SR, we might not even notice another Bug City happening over there...

Personally, I've always just assumed there are a couple of major (!) hives floating around somewhere, and some day one'll go off even worse than Chicago. I mean, astral bug spirits can hibernate in weird, obscure, hard-to-find places... And it wouldn't be hard - say - to get a toxic hive hidden in some kill-metahumans-instantly-from-the-sludge toxic wasteland.

Mmmmm, Toxic Wasps.
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FrankTrollman
post Mar 7 2006, 09:56 PM
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QUOTE (Bullet Raven)
Get Shadows of Europe because Europe > North America ;)

I agree with the conclusion but not the reasoning. Shadows of North America was the last SR book that was written as a series of truly separate documents by authors not working together. And it shows.

Shadows of North America performs the "Amazing vanishing 16 million people trick" - where apparently the Pueblo Corporate Council manages to conquer a region with essentially double its own population without gaining a single resident in the process. I don't know who wasn't talking to who, but that kind of sloppiness is rife throughout. You basically have to ignore all the statistics entirely, which is a shame.

OTOH, statistics for populations, language use, and economics are pretty decent (or at least internally consistent) for both Shadows of Europe and Shadows of Asia.

-Frank
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SL James
post Mar 7 2006, 11:20 PM
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Of all the problems with that book and PCC in particular, the disappearance of 16 million people isn't even in the top ten.
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eidolon
post Mar 8 2006, 03:21 AM
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Meh. Aside from small, easily correctable things like that, I actually rather enjoy the books that are written as compilations. You actually get different voices for different parts, which in a locations book makes more sense anyway.

Thanks for the answers guys.
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fistandantilus4....
post Mar 8 2006, 07:56 AM
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The good thing about Sh of NA is that it gives you a good background to build upon for any general area you need to be. It will give you the gist about most countries, and some suprising information that you can work with (like the bit about the mormons in Salt Lake). The downside of course is that a lot of it may never be used in your game, but in my opinion, that sort of information is important for any GM and player to have if you have more than a passing interest in the game, because it gives you a fuller view of the world, so you can better portray charaters interacting with it.
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SL James
post Mar 8 2006, 08:31 AM
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Of course, the foundation of most of that background was set by giants over a decade ago.
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fistandantilus4....
post Mar 8 2006, 08:39 AM
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things change either way. Shadows of Asia and Loose Alliances in the MIddle East section. They go into all this detail about how things are set, then System Failure comes along and changes it all. BUt they had to do all of that to set it up for that change/overhaul.

You do have to wonder if that was perhaps a change on something they didn't like, or that it was infact planned that way. Anyways my point is that even if that info is based off of old info and style ,it's still something to build on.
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SL James
post Mar 8 2006, 09:23 AM
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I'd be quite eager to kill the IUM the moment I got the chance.

Although to be perfectly honest, there is a considerable amount of retconning I'd be willing to do to as far that the Middle East goes. Goddamn the Germany SB.
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Bullet Raven
post Mar 8 2006, 11:41 AM
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QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
The good thing about Sh of NA is that it gives you a good background to build upon for any general area you need to be. It will give you the gist about most countries, and some suprising information that you can work with (like the bit about the mormons in Salt Lake). The downside of course is that a lot of it may never be used in your game, but in my opinion, that sort of information is important for any GM and player to have if you have more than a passing interest in the game, because it gives you a fuller view of the world, so you can better portray charaters interacting with it.

Definitely, one of the PCs in my game is an ex-sioux wildcat and the background information about them was interesting (I learned some stuff about the Sioux nation I didn't previously know) so it's not a bad book by any means ;)

The thing I love about the 6th world is that if you look something up and it mentions another event as a precursor 9 times out of 10 it's a fully written and expanded area of the timeline. When it's not again 9 times out of 10 it was a purposefully left-to-the-gm thing.
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J├╝rgen Hubert
post Mar 8 2006, 01:25 PM
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I rather like SoNA. They make the CAS more than just a bunch of rednecks - instead they consider themselves the last true remnant of the USA when the UCAS went all socialist on them when they absorbed the remains of Canada. And the NAN are now much more than just a place for "wilderness adventures".
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